"Sola scriptura"

[theleastofthese]

I was on an Orthodox page discussing plural marriage; arguing that polygyny isn't sinful and stating that scripture doesn't suggest it is. Multiple people claimed that I was being "Sola scriptura." When I looked into the definition, I was even more confused. "Sola scriptura is a Latin phrase that means "by scripture alone" or "the Bible alone". It is a Christian doctrine that states the Bible is the sole source of authority for Christian faith and practice." Why would someone take issue with this? Can someone help me understand this a little more? These are some of responses I received-

"Yes it's important to note that we are not sola Scriptura and that we don't believe that the entirety of moral teaching is contained within the Bible. It is very clear from Christian witness that from the earliest times Christianity dictated monogamy. In this way it did distinguish itself from Judaism. We could argue that this is new revelation and that we shouldn't hold that monogamy is binding for non-christians and that polygamy is immoral for non-Christians since it's explicitly permitted in the old law. But again it's very clear from Christian history that from as early as we have discussion from Christians about marriage that it is purely monogamous."

"Sola scriptura, it's a false teaching with nothing supporting it."

"That's not how it works. The burden of proof falls on those that claim Sola Scriptura"

"That's not a belief, it's a fact. Like I said, the burden of proof falls on the one making the claim that scripture supports Sola Scriptura."

"The Orthodox Church (and importantly the early church) has never taught that everything is completely outlined in the Bible. Now, everything has at least some nexus in the Bible -- in this case, monogamy definitely doesn't come out of nowhere and is strongly implied in the text -- but relying on the Bible doesn't define the doctrine, and you can even find in the Old Testament a time when it wasn't the doctrine. Consider the Trinity. You can argue the Trinity from the biblical text, but it's just not the direct teaching of the Bible. Using the text alone, you can come to other conclusions. But it's clearly the teaching of the Church. The New Testament is a collection of stuff from the apostles we thought was right and important to write down as guidance, but not everything we thought was important got written down by them."

 

[Mark C]

Typical heresy. The ^%$# with Scripture - "we" (the you-know-what) will add to and subtract from it as we see fit...

 

[MemeFan]

Catholic Church starts with scripture then add writing of church fathers (St. Jeronime, St. Augustine etc...).

So if you speak against church fathers, you are for heresy since their writings are proper interprentation.

Orthodox is similar. You are going against Tradition (big T on purpose).

Edit: spelling, grammar

 

[OttoM]

Catholic Church starts with scripture then add writing of church fathers (St. Jeronime, St. Augustine etc...).

So if speak against church fathers you for heresy dince their writings are proper interprentation.

Orthodox is similar. You are going against Tradition (big T on purpose).

I don't want to be part of any church that says that righteous saints like Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Moshe, and David are not invited. But at the same time they open the door for homosexuals - an abomination. This is what happens when a church (wife) commits whoredom - (in these cases with the satanic state system) - the land becomes defiled with wickedness. Homosexual priests and pastors are raping children left and right inside these places. Pride flags. Blessings of homosexual unions.

Sola Scriptura:



I'm doing pretty well sticking with "Sola Scriptura." Praise YAH. So I'll stick with his Wisdom and not the theologies and reasonings of men.

 

[OttoM]

Sola Scriptura and receiving Wisdom from YAH - and you avoid things like this:

 

[ASyers41]

My own personal thought if you will is letting the Holy Spirit lead and direct you as to what the Word says.

 

[frederick]

Multiple people claimed that I was being "Sola scriptura."

That's about the highest commendation you could receive. Congratulations

Questioning God and what He says began in the Garden. It didn't go well for Eve when she decided to do something different than what God said, and it’s only got worse since then. If doing something different was so good, why is this world such a mess? Stick with the Truth, and leave the lies and deceit to the heretics.

 

[theleastofthese]

I'm doing pretty well sticking with "Sola Scriptura." Praise YAH. So I'll stick with his Wisdom and not the theologies and reasonings of men.

I agree, I was genuinely confused because I never thought something like that would be used as an insult.

 

[MemeFan]

Sola Scriptura and receiving Wisdom from YAH - and you avoid things like this:

View attachment 9705

Oh please, they have some abuse, but US public school system is way worse (3X - 10X worse).

 

[MemeFan]

I agree, I was genuinely confused because I never thought something like that would be used as an insult.

It's not a insult. In your posted texts I don't see them lowering your social status, something insult would do.

It's just they have additional texts which they consider authoritative. They refuse to leave authority of such texts and demand burden of proof by you. All explained by posted texts.

 

[FollowingHim]

Bear in mind that even a "Sola Scriptura" view relies upon the church fathers, because it assumes that the choice of books that are considered "scripture" - which was a decision of the church fathers that is not itself written in scripture - is correct. So "Sola scriptura" just means only considering one decision by the church fathers authoritative (the canon of scripture), while the Orthodox consider more of their decisions authoritative. I can understand their position.

The way to counter this argument is not to confront it head-on and assert sola scriptura is actually correct (that will get nowhere), but to take their viewpoint as the starting point and consider this specific issue within that paradigm. Remember the Orthodox accept BOTH scripture and the church fathers.

Thoughts for your discussion with them:

Church fathers: Yes, there are statements from the church fathers that support monogamy. However, there are also other statements that leave the door open for polygamy. St Augustine for instance stated very clearly that polygamy was rejected by cultural custom, not because it was actually forbidden by God.

Scripture: Beyond just not condemning polygamy, scripture positively requires polygamy in certain narrow circumstances. How should a person behave in such circumstances?

Ultimately, the idea that people should be monogamous is, frankly, very good advice for most people. The church fathers were in the position of giving advice to the church as to how to act, and the Orthodox hold this advice in high esteem. The question is whether this advice is absolutely binding on all people for all time, and disobeying this advice is sinful, or whether it is just good advice for many circumstances but there are times when polygamy is still the most Godly path for a person. And a good example of that to begin with would be a polygamist converting to Christianity - are they expected to change their marital situation to obey the advice of the church fathers, or is this an exception where they should remain polygamous to avoid divorce and obey scripture?

 

[theleastofthese]

It's not a insult. In your posted texts I don't see them lowering your social status, something insult would do.

It's just they have additional texts which they consider authoritative. They refuse to leave authority of such texts and demand burden of proof by you. All explained by posted texts.

Bear in mind that even a "Sola Scriptura" view relies upon the church fathers, because it assumes that the choice of books that are considered "scripture" - which was a decision of the church fathers that is not itself written in scripture - is correct. So "Sola scriptura" just means only considering one decision by the church fathers authoritative (the canon of scripture), while the Orthodox consider more of their decisions authoritative. I can understand their position.

The way to counter this argument is not to confront it head-on and assert sola scriptura is actually correct (that will get nowhere), but to take their viewpoint as the starting point and consider this specific issue within that paradigm. Remember the Orthodox accept BOTH scripture and the church fathers.

Thoughts for your discussion with them:

Church fathers: Yes, there are statements from the church fathers that support monogamy. However, there are also other statements that leave the door open for polygamy. St Augustine for instance stated very clearly that polygamy was rejected by cultural custom, not because it was actually forbidden by God.

Scripture: Beyond just not condemning polygamy, scripture positively requires polygamy in certain narrow circumstances. How should a person behave in such circumstances?

Ultimately, the idea that people should be monogamous is, frankly, very good advice for most people. The church fathers were in the position of giving advice to the church as to how to act, and the Orthodox hold this advice in high esteem. The question is whether this advice is absolutely binding on all people for all time, and disobeying this advice is sinful, or whether it is just good advice for many circumstances but there are times when polygamy is still the most Godly path for a person. And a good example of that to begin with would be a polygamist converting to Christianity - are they expected to change their marital situation to obey the advice of the church fathers, or is this an exception where they should remain polygamous to avoid divorce and obey scripture?

Thank you both for helping me understand this better.

 

[Mark C]

Oh please, they have some abuse, but US public school system is way worse (3X - 10X worse).

For the VERY same reason: "Another god."

 

[Mark C]

...the church fathers were in the position of giving advice to the church as to how to act, and the Orthodox hold this advice in high esteem.

The problem is that they then DENY the clear Written Word, and elevate their own Opinion above that of YHVH and what He Wrote.

You don't have to advocate for "only Scripture" in order to demonstrate when they are simply lying, and changing His Word, as Somebody once put it, to thus,

"make the commandments of YHVH of no effect."

(Mark chapter 7, the whole thing.)

 

[theleastofthese]

DENY the clear Written Word, and elevate their own Opinion above that of YHVH and what He Wrote.

^^^ This is precisely what some were doing. I didn't post that part of the conversation or the other ridiculous responses they held about why polygamy is sinful. One of them actually said that "Christ is the groom to THE Church, only ONE Church." I asked, "What his definition of "The Church" was? He responded, "a body of believers."

It's like they're trying to prove your point for you...

 

[MemeFan]

^^^ This is precisely what some were doing. I didn't post that part of the conversation or the other ridiculous responses they held about why polygamy is sinful. One of them actually said that "Christ is the groom to THE Church, only ONE Church." I asked, "What his definition of "The Church" was? He responded, "a body of believers."

It's like they're trying to prove your point for you...

I just say:

Thank you for proving my point.
Next time, please, use argument which goes into your favour.

 

[OttoM]

“Don’t throw your pearls to the swine.” With the far left you expect this type of behavior. But when someone who professes he’s a sinner worthy of death - and needs the atoning blood of a Savior - then goes and does violence to the Word made flesh - it’s downright treason and rebellion. Rebellion - the Creator says - is like the sin of witchcraft - which carries a death penalty.

 

[The Revolting Man]

I actually admire their honesty when they admit that they believe un-Biblical doctrines.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Bear in mind that even a "Sola Scriptura" view relies upon the church fathers, because it assumes that the choice of books that are considered "scripture" -

Absolutely not. We’re told what the standard for scripture is and it’s up to every believer to decide for themselves what they believe fits the standard. Study to show yourself approved is a command.