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A Sunset Clause

Maddog

Maddog

Seasoned Member
Male
I have been thinking about Yahwehs laws and statutes and teaching. I have wondered about the fulfillment or completion or expiration of any of the teachings. Kinda like a "sunset clause" for any one of the teachings. For instance when the vision came to the apostle where the "unclean" food was presented on a blanket with the edict "rise, kill and eat". I believe that to be the direct expiration of the dietary rules. As well, the fulfillment of the priestly rules(read that atonement) was accomplished in the person and work of Jesus the Christ. Can you think of any other law or encouragement from OT that is finished in the NT? Also, please include the "why's" behind it. There is a time when we are to obey first and ask why later or just blindly obey like a child "because Dad says so..."
-M
 
I already tried sort of that:

M

Meat Thread 'Limits of Christian rules'

I do sense that people here consider Christianity, sort of, magical. Just do rules and everything will be fine in sense that society will be great. I don't include personal tragedies and similar things.

Really? Did we forget to think?

A) Paperwork compliance

I believe I say truth is I say that nobody loves bride price as @Otto. But, will introducing bride price in current Western societies fix anything? For real?

You mean man will send some money to bank account owned by her father, then she will withdrawn money to pay for "marriage ceremony" which will finish with round of hot...
 
Maddog said:
I have been thinking about Yahwehs laws and statutes and teaching. I have wondered about the fulfillment or completion or expiration of any of the teachings. Kinda like a "sunset clause" for any one of the teachings. For instance when the vision came to the apostle where the "unclean" food was presented on a blanket with the edict "rise, kill and eat". I believe that to be the direct expiration of the dietary rules. As well, the fulfillment of the priestly rules(read that atonement) was accomplished in the person and work of Jesus the Christ. Can you think of any other law or encouragement from OT that is finished in the NT? Also, please include the "why's" behind it. There is a time when we are to obey first and ask why later or just blindly obey like a child "because Dad says so..."
-M
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Ehhh. I disagree on the conclusion about the blanket edict but if we go too far into this…
it gets sticky and could potentially end up violating the agreement to steer clear of going too far into the weeds of the Torah debate.
 
This is a defacto Torah observance debate by design.

_________________

Acts 10

24. And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and had called together his kinsmen and near friends.

25. And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.

26. But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

27. And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.

28. And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

29. Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?

_________________

We don't have to guess at what this vision means. We are explicitly told the meaning of it.

This is the moment when Peter begins to bring in Cornelius, the "first gentile" of this time period. Peter is specifically shown that it doesn't matter what ethnicity or nationality a man is, anyone can be joined-in to the covenant if they believe and obey. The promise is open to those who do not wish to be gentiles anymore.

Peter has preached for ten years without eating like a pagan. He understands the difference between "food" and "not food." Like all the other Apostles we see that, after the Crucifixion, they continue to observe the instructions for righteous living given to believers.

This doesn't change until around the 150s AD with the incredible fomentation of anti-Israelite hatred inside of burgeoning Christianity. This move to create a pagan Christianity not based on the ways of the Apostles was part of the same movement which created a monogamy-only version of Christianity.

I don't know why someone would want to hand-wave away the promises of covenant to all in exchange for a desire of lawlessness, but that has been fashionable for almost 1900 years within mainstream culture.
 
This is my genuine question and if one categorically dismisses the expiration, he misses the complete fulfillment by Jesus the Annointed.
 
Jesus himself in Matthew 5:18 gave the expiration.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

He never made any declaration that His coming, death, or anything prior to the end of the world completed fulfillment.
 
Maddog said:
For instance when the vision came to the apostle where the "unclean" food was presented on a blanket with the edict "rise, kill and eat". I believe that to be the direct expiration of the dietary rules.
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In reality, Peter told Him no 3 times and we are never told that he actually ate of the unclean animals. Then Yah proceeded to use him to bring the Good News to the Gentiles, something that no one thought was possible.
What seems to have expired was the idea that salvation was for the Jews.
 
steve said:
In reality, Peter told Him no 3 times and we are never told that he actually ate of the unclean animals. Then Yah proceeded to use him to bring the Good News to the Gentiles, something that no one thought was possible.
What seems to have expired was the idea that salvation was for the Jews.
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Where does all this talk about "expiration" come from?

We see the instructions for salvation repeated over and over again throughout scripture, Yahweh says He doesn't ever change. Jesus says it doesn't change.

We see a very large amount of gentiles joining-in during the centuries of the Exodus and the Conquest and the Kingdoms. Salvation was never about ethnicity. We absolutely do see an expansion in the understanding of the people during the time of the Apostles, but this isn't new. I would like to put forward that what we are seeing here is a renewal of this understanding.

The promises to the Israelites are permanent but their purpose is specific. The reason these promises are made (over and over) is so that the neighboring nations can see that Yahweh is the one true god and that paganism is wrong. This happens through both blessings and curses.

If the Israelites will do what Yahweh tells them to do, they will be blessed beyond measure and EVERYONE else will see it and know that they are following the real god. If the Israelites do not follow directions then Yahweh will punishment them and EVERYONE else will see it and be fearful of Yahweh.

When we see this, we see that the blessings and curses were for the spiritual salvation of everyone, including the other people in the world.
 
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Off-Grid Artist said:
Where does all this talk about "expiration" come from?
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In the second sentence of the question that started this thread.
Off-Grid Artist said:
When we see this, we see that the blessings and curses were for the spiritual salvation of everyone, including the other people in the world.
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Of course!
It’s easy to see from our viewpoint, but that wasn’t their perspective.
Back then it was themselves and their god against the rest of the known world.
Peter was really going off the reservation when he accepted the commission to go to teach Cornelias. It just wasn’t done. Cornelias seems to have been an anomaly in that he accepted Israel’s god in the manner that you mentioned. While he acknowledged Yah, you know full well that he wasn’t allowed to worship with them or enter their temple.

Something that jumped out at me that I really hadn’t noticed before.
17Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean,

Peter knew that it couldn’t mean what the vast majority of Christians today “know” that it means.
It wasn’t until after its fulfillment that he could explain it.
 
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The sabbath is a type of the rest promised to the faithful and discussed in Hebrews. But it is also a memorial of creation and an integral part of the rhythm of life in the Creators system. Memorials never expire.
All of the appointed times of leviticus 23 are also both types and memorials. They will all ultimately be fulfilled in Messiah, but will never lose thei validity nor cease to be instructive.
No command ever ceases because He says"I am the LORD. I change not".
 
steve said:
Back then it was themselves and their god against the rest of the known world.
Peter was really going off the reservation when he accepted the commission to go to teach Cornelias.
Click to expand...
Maybe not in an evangelistic manner but there was a court of the gentiles in the Temple that Peter prayed at. There was separation, though.

Similar to the veil being torn, another separation was being removed.
 
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