Hello,

[John_and_Lori]

HI YALL

We are from north Texas, lol. Anyway, my wife and I are Christians, then baptist. We both went to church as kids. We go to church alot now, we have learned so much. We have been thinking about plural marriage, I have done a in-depth Bible study. I pray that, I put as much time into all my Bible studies. I found that old Testament and New Testament, allows it... The closest thing that my church can say against it is that, we are to follow mans law. Render unto Caesar. They tried, alot of things, if they don't want to, then they should not practice plural marriage. What gets me is that I know that if, a man came with two wifes they would say get rid of all but one and repent. Which is what one should do if the Bible said it was a sin. So, the Church, would say disregard That Jesus said it is a sin to divorce, and remarry, no where does it say-JUST- it is a sin to marry again. In Mat. 25:1-13, is about the Rapture, but EVERY WORD form Jesus was ordained by God the Father, before Creation. So, we have come to the belief that it is allowed by the Bible. We have talked, prayed, prayed, and prayed some more about it. I do not want to lead my family astray. I read a the Bible, where any said, that it said that it WAS allowed, but not any more, I can not find it. I prayed every day that God would illuminate the Scripture, and lead me to find His truth about it, or even bring someone from our church to, show us. He did... Even while telling me, how wrong it is, every one said "the Scripture is the only true Authority." Our last Sunday morning Bible study was about that very thing, that the Scripture is the only true Authority, and not to follow Man made religious regulations, to go to the Scripture for proof. I asked the question, "Do baptist consider king David, to be a sinner for all the wifes that he had or just the one" I know that you know the answer.{In todays times, yes we do}. My response was, That's not what my Bible, says. I know that I will never get them to believe it, even though it is in black and white, in the Bible that they have studied for many years. We now find our-selfs, trying to figure out how to go about finding a second wife, and thinking about our church, I know that they will never accept it. That would mean, no church, or to keep it hidden, I don't like either. Life is full of choices. I don't know about all the rest of the states but, in Texas we got common law marriage, so if are married to one and you say you a married to the second, then by law you are a bigamist. Does any know if you make a contract between all parties, saying that no legal marriage exists between any but the man and the first wife, would that do any thing? The Bible says a man and a woman are married when they become one flesh, so it would only be "Rendering unto Caesar". I don't think it would the laws are pretty tight, just thought I would ask.

 

[Dr. K.R. Allen]

John and Lori,

What a treat to be able to hear your story and meet with you here.

Many people have traveled down the same road you have. First, let me say I am sorry to sense the pain you feel about the possibility of loosing your church family because of this doctrine. I pray that does not happen. But, if it does, you'll find here many people who will love you and be an encouragement to you.

Second, as far as the future of taking another wife let me offer one small piece of love to that thought. The Bible speaks about "walking in the truth" (2 John 4). That's a good word: "walk." Don't run or rush things. God in his providence will in his time orchestrate that as you seek his kingdom and righteousness (Matt. 6:33). As you go about making disciples in the Lord he'll give to you all you need for the task of the Great Commission.

In the meantime, browse around the forums and enjoy the new friends the Lord is bringing into your lives.

Let us know here if we can do anything to help you. You can email me at keith@biblicalfamilies.org or any of us through staff@biblicalfamilies.org

We look forward to getting to know you as the days progress.

Dr. Allen

 

[Dr. K.R. Allen]

I don't know about all the rest of the states but, in Texas we got common law marriage, so if are married to one and you say you a married to the second, then by law you are a bigamist. Does any know if you make a contract between all parties, saying that no legal marriage exists between any but the man and the first wife, would that do any thing? The Bible says a man and a woman are married when they become one flesh, so it would only be "Rendering unto Caesar". I don't think it would the laws are pretty tight, just thought I would ask.

I missed your question in your post. My apologies for that. When I read it the second time I noticed that was in the post.

With all honesty you are in a pretty good state to believe what you do. Technically, yes because of the common law marriage factor you might be technically labeled as a bigamist/polygamist by the state law. But there may also be a conflict in the state law where the second wife could not be considered to be a wife legally. For example, certain laws outweigh or rank higher in the law codes. A constitutional law would rank higher than a mere legislative law. Thus if the constitution says: "marriage can only be between one man and only one woman" [or something like that] then the common law marriage doctrine would be overuled by the constitutional law. The second lady would simply not be recognized under the law.

Furthermore, bigamy has in most places (or at least a lot) applied to a person who marries one lady while the other does not know about the other. In other words, if John marries Heather and then one year later secretly marries Beth without Heather [or Beth] knowing he could be charged with bigamy.

But if the first and second lady know of each other and are willing participants than usually no crime or punishment is seen.

Additionally, to your question of a "contract stating there is no marriage." I doubt that would be necessary in regard to the fact that in an open case where the entire family knows about the union bigamy would not be the issue.

Few and far between, and none that I can think of at the moment, have been prosecuted for the simple reason of having multiple wives (as long as they know of each other and are willing paticipants, of age, etc).

For 1900 years the believers did not have any such thing as a "marriage license" or a government regulated marriage. Thus, if a man and woman or a man and women marry it is not an issue for the government to define. The saints did well with the private unions for that long. There is no necessity or biblical reason as to why government needs to be involved in marital unions any more than they need to be involved in defining what doctrine needs to be taught at the local baptist church or the local hindu temple. In time this will change and is it slowly changing now.

As for the one flesh concept. How timely There has been considerable discussion as of late on that topic. For a short answer: yes, when two unite in their heart that shows itself in the physical sexual union a marriage or a joining of two has taken place and they are now one, or one family. That is the essence of a marriage in the eyes of God according to the Bible as I understand it.

Grace to you brother.

 

[sweetlissa]

There are others in North Texas. We have a small fellowship in the DFW area. Please let me know if you are close enough to join us (occasionally or more, as you wish.)

SweetLissa

 

[John_and_Lori]

Thank you both, and yes we would like to attend, and get to know others.

 

[Scarecrow]

Welcome John and Lori...

I enjoyed reading your message because it reminded me of the days not long ago when I began to realize what God ordained as marriage. It is almost as if God flips a switch in some of us and then we take off with our new knowledge like a rocket...Keith's advice to take it at a manageable pace is very sound advice...

When I first discovered what marriage, adultery, and divorce were based on the scriptures I was upset that the churches were teaching doctrine contrary to what I could clearly see in the Bible and I became angry. I confronted pastors and others that I thought would consider the standard church doctrine and examine the evidence I provided. What I quickly learned is that once God has revealed these things by His Holy Spirit to you, those who only know what they are told to believe will not be able to comprehend what you are telling them. They will think you are either crazy or deceived.

I was so bothered by the mass deception playing out before my eyes that I developed a 16 page exegesis from scratch. Considering that I am not a scholar or writer that was quite an achievement for me. I then made a cover letter explaining my findings from the scriptures and challenging anyone to logically refute my findings or explain my deception using the scriptures themselves (I guess there is a little Luther in me). I made numerous copies which had my name and cell phone number on them and gave them to pastors of churches in my area. I never received one phone call back. One pastor I knew and had his email simply stated that polygamy is sinful. I replied to him - prove it. I have not heard from him since. When I discuss this topic I usually get opinion, not scripture, to support their argument. The standard arguments are easy to refute once you have considered them. Adam only had one wife - I reply that Adam and Eve are the model for marriage, it is to be between a man and a woman, but that was the circumstance Adam was in. He was also naked, a gardener, and told to be fruitful and multiply; if a circumstance dictates law then it is sinful to have more than one wife, wear clothes, participate in any profession other than farming, and to not have children. One circumstance cannot be a law but not the others. It was hard a first for me to make these arguments to people without becoming visibly frustrated, but I learned that if I simply give them the information as if I was shrugging it off like "well here is the truth, doesn't bother me if you can't see it", then they were the ones to become visibly bothered. That approach often drew them into a mild debate and I was able to offer even more evidence.

 

[John_and_Lori]

Scarecrow, WOW, you hit the nail on the head, my wife and I read your post. She asked if I was Scarecrow? I have already came to understand that, some are blind and will chose to stay that way. I had the same idea, to send out a detailed letter to all churches, but I figured that I would not get any response, but, it's a sin. We plan to move at what ever pace God chooses. We have talked about it for many years, I even joked about being "baptist with twist" but, I had never studied the Bible about this. When I first think about, searching the Bible about this topic, it feels strange, but the Bible is God's word to us about every thing. I read some where that the Bible is not a book about sex. I agree, Totally. It's Scripture, from God, that tells us how to live our lives. I mean every thing from how to treat our wife(s), children, parents, other Christians and even non Christians. It tells us how to behave, in all situations. How to worship God and Jesus. All this and a million more. One of which is, what is, and what is not allowed about sex, or the who anyway.

 

[Scarecrow]

When people bring up sex and the Bible you are usually dealing with prudes...it is easy to deal with them simply mentioning the book of Song of Solomon, it is so erotic that it almost didn't make it into the canon...God invented sex, and he is even there during the act...

Mal 2:15 Did he not make them one, with a portion of the Spirit in their union? And what was the one God seeking? Godly offspring. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and let none of you be faithless to the wife of your youth.