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Hi from New York

StevenScott81

New Member
Greetings in Jesus Name, I'm curious that there are Christians in America who would practice Polygamy. I do not object to it because it is prevalent in the Bible. However, it appears that Pastors cannot have more than one wife. Paul wrote that Overseers must be "the husband of one wife." Therefore it appears that monogamous marriages are preferred and that the Pastors are suppose to be examples to the believers in this area. To bad for me :roll: . However, I would not bar anyone from fellowship who practiced polygamy as long as they were faithful to their covenants and worked hard to support their wives and children.
What do you think?
Pastor Steve
 
Welcome Steve, we're glad you found us. I suspect you are about to get a bunch of pointers on interpreting (and translating) the 1 Tim 3:12 and Titus 1:6 verses you are referring to, that may not have occurred to you before, so I'll leave that to others.

But even taking the verse at common understanding, if you actively pastor a church and are serious about "not barring from fellowship", that would make you fairly distinctive, so be sure you mean it - because you just might get some takers!

God bless, look forward to your participation, Nathan
 
Welcome Steve!

It is so great to have you with us, I look forward to getting to know you here on the forum. I recently visited New Jersey with my wife and we were able to enjoy a ride out to the Statue of Liberty. It was a wonderful time.

Blessings,
Paul


You might be surprised at what you find when you look at the word "one" in the 1 Tim 3:2 verse that you mention. There are many threads on this forum that touch on this particular verse and how the word translated as "one" greatly changes the intended meaning of that scripture:

http://www.biblicalfamilies.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=609, this is one of them.
 
Greetings and a hearty welcome.

StevenScott81 said:
Paul wrote that Overseers must be "the husband of one wife." Therefore it appears that monogamous marriages are preferred and that the Pastors are suppose to be examples to the believers in this area. To bad for me :roll: .

That is the commonly understood "take" on his writing, though by no means the only logical one.

"A special rule for special cases tends to prove that the inverse was expected to exist among the rest" is one.

There is also much debate as to the meaning of the word translated "one" in this passage. It could as correctly been translated "a" or "first", each carrying different and probably more apropos implications since the rest of the passages in question speak to the character qualifications of the prospect, not his circumstances. Especially when one adds in the culture (Hellenic) of those so addressed.

And yes, you'll find extensive treatments on these specific topics and alternatives in a number of threads here.

All in all, I suspect that the position of the majority of the members here is that it is NOT too bad for you. Feel free to add another wife. :o :)

Ummmm ... So how does your EXISTING wife feel about the subject?
 
Hi Pastor Steve,

Like you, I struggled with this question, and more often than not relied on the traditions of men as to the interpretation of key verses for qualification for those in leadership in the church. I came to terms with these through intense study, fellowship and communication with other 'Berean' believers, and a strong witness of the Holy Spirit.

So let's get started....

1. "It appears that Pastors cannot have more than one wife"

Where in the New Testament are the qualifications for "Pastor" given? Not trying to be nit-picky, but often when we quote pastoral qualifications, we are actually using those for Bishop or Deacon. In Ephesians 4, the calling of 'Pastor' is listed alongside those of Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, and Teacher. However, no where does it list the qualifications of ANY of those callings, except for the recognition by a body of believers to that calling.

Can one be a Pastor without being a Bishop or a Deacon? Sure.

But, I know having been a pastor for more than 12 years myself, that is NOT what you were asking.... ;)

2. "Paul wrote that Overseers must be "the husband of one wife."

If by the term Overseer you mean Bishop, then let's list ALL the qualifications:

1 TIM 3................................TITUS 1 (Appointed, NOT elected.....hmmm)
Blameless.................................Blameless
The husband of a/one wife............The husband of a/one wife
Vigilant...................................Just, holy
Sober......................................Sober
Good behavior............................Good behavior (a lover of good men)
Given to hospitality......................Given to hospitality
Teachable
He can drink, just not too much........He can drink, just not too much
Not a fighter or a bully...................Not a fighter or a bully
Not obsessed with money................Not obsessed with money
Patient......................................Patient (not soon angry), temperate
Satisfied with what he has
Manages his household well..............Manages his household well
The father of more than one child......The father of more than one child
Well behaved children.....................Well behaved children
Experienced in faith........................Experienced in faith (holding fast the faithful Word)
A good report from those in the world

Pastor Steve, do you think that Paul was issuing a checklist of qualifications for the office of Bishop, or was he giving guidelines to the church as to the CHARACTER of those who hold that office? For instance, according to this list, ALL bishops must not only be MARRIED, but they also must be FATHERS, and they must also have MORE THAN ONE CHILD. If that is the case, then perhaps Paul disqualified himself, not to mention JESUS! :D . (Sidebar: just to stir us some extra trouble, according to these passages, ONLY MEN can serve in positions of leadership)

Are we equating the five-fold ministry gifts (Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, Teacher) with the qualifications of 'Overseer'? If we are, then let us recall every missionary/apostle who is single or widowed or childless. Let us ask to step from the pulpit every pastor with only one child, because they do not qualify. Let us also ask for the resignation of every Sunday School teacher or Bible study leader who is unmarried, or has no kids. If we are going to hold to one portion of this passage (husband of one wife), then you have to hold to ALL OF IT. My Dad used to say, "If you are in for a penny, you are in for a pound."

But....once again, I KNNOOOWWW that is not what you are asking....you are asking this:

3. The husband of ONE wife

First of all, all three passages relating to 'qualifications' (1 Tim 3:2, 1 Tim 3:12 and Titus 1:6) seem to be placing an emphasis on the bishop/deacon being a husband and a father, and not a specified numeral setting of the word ONE (mia in the Greek).

Second, to see how the word is used here, it is a good idea to see how it is used elsewhere. In this case, the word MIA is used as: "a", "any", "other", "certain", "one of two or more", or "first", as well as "one" both singular (as in 'one day') or plural (as in 'one flock'). What is of particular note about the word MIA is its ability to denote both singular and plural nouns.

There is a much better, more commonly used word for a singular 'one' in the New Testament, and that is the word HEIS. It means ONE and ONLY ONE. In fact, Paul commonly uses the word HEIS all over the place, yet in these three particular passages he uses a differing word....the question is, therefore, WHY? Paul could have saved us all a lot of trouble here just by using a different word that meant ONE AND ONLY ONE.

But, Paul was a master craftsman of the text. He always says what he means to say, and the Greek language can be a very unique tool at getting a particular point across. So, let's use the differing meanings of MIA to determine what Paul was saying:

The husband of A/ANY/OTHER/CERTAIN/ONE wife: redundant-we already know that a husband has a wife.
The husband of ONE OF TWO OR MORE/ONE (PLURAL) wife: does not work. wife is SINGULAR here in the Greek.
The husband of a FIRST wife: means that the man is married, to how many we don't know, but he is for SURE married to his FIRST wife (he therefore cannot be divorced OR WIDOWED from his first wife).

So we have come down to two possible definitions. Either Paul was saying you had to be married to ONE (numeric) wife, or still married to your FIRST (wife).

No where in either the Old or the New Testament is plural marriage condemned by God, the prophets, Jesus, the Apostles, etc. Now suddenly we have what appears to be a restriction on plural marriage....or is it?

Let us think back to the passages. Each of them outlines CHARACTER traits of that potential leader. So let's ask a character question. Who would you rather have in a ministry position:

a man married to more than one wife, but still to his first wife, who manages his household well?
a man who is divorced from his first wife?

Throughout the New Testament, divorce and all its implications is condemned again and again. No where, no where, not one place at all, is plural marriage condemned.

Therefore, it is my humble opinion that Paul was not addressing the question of polygyny is these qualification passages, but the question of DIVORCE. It fits right in line with the rest of passage, especially as it relates to the question of 'managing his household well.'

Once again, I would like to just say that in my heart and spirit I do not believe that Paul was writing out a list of 'must haves' for these offices. If that were the case, there would be no room for forgiveness or repentance. Instead, I believe that Paul was simply giving some guidelines as to the general character of leaders. And that, my dear brother, fits into the awesome character of a merciful, forgiving Father who desires us to pursue Him with passion!

I am sure that you will have plenty more responses, but Pastor to Pastor, I just wanted to get in first!

Blessings,
 
WOW, Doc! Rear back on yer hind legs, and PREACH IT, Bro! Superbly stated.
 
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