Pennsylvania

[David777]

Greetings, everybody.

I have been looking for this kind of forum for ages. I believe that possibly one of the greatest differences between what the Bible teaches, and what Christianity today teaches, is the role of men and women in society. I believe God allowed polygamy in the Bible, due to the natural differences between men and women. I believe that God gives the option of polygamy, in order to help his Godly people take care of otherwise lonely women. It is far more honorable, as I see it, to have four wives at the same time, than to have four wives/girlfriends, two years each. The situation of today, where a man sleeps with a girlfriend one year, with another the next year, or where men divorce and remarry so easily, is destroying western society, the western institution of family. Women divorce their men who cheat, and men cheat because they can't tell their wives that they would like to have another wife. So we have a society with an uber-abundance of single-mothers. Women who switch "boyfriend" at an scary rate. This does not happen, or at least it is WAY harder that it happens to a woman with a biblical view of marriage. Her home doesn't break that easily. Israel had 4 wives, and he kept them all for life, his whole family was united, for life. His inheritance grew and was made stronger, instead of being divided and split.

What happens with single mothers? Generally, they have to work all the time. So kids are raised by the ungodly school system, or by strangers with no stakes in their lives. This shouldn't be. The mothers should be there, and correct and discipline the kids. We live in a society of people raised by the TV. Polygamy could be an enormous help, to many, many women who can not find a stability, a home, a family, a man who will not dump her, a man who will stay with her for life. If she's just willing to be a "sister wife", then she can have a man for life, who will not dump her.

There are literally MYRIADS of beautiful single women out there who can simply not find a home! I have debated this issue, of the Bible not forbidding polygamy, with many pastors, and although I do not have plans of becoming a polygamist, because it seems better to be a monogamist, in order to freely preach the Good news, or even defend polygamy, I encountered great opposition, with arguments that simply can't convince me. They say that God forbids polygamy because "a man shall cleave to his wife, not wives". So that is forbidding? Give me a break. People simply can not give me a convincing argument. I have read the whole Bible, and I don't think polygamy is forbidden. Divorce and remarriage is called "adultery" by Jesus, homosexuality is abomination in the Bible, sex before marriage has death penalty in the Old Testament, Fornicators will not inherit God's kingdom, etc. All of these are activities more or less accepted by the church. But woe unto you if you are a polygamist! You are immediately the worst kind of offender.

Now another problem I see is that polygamy is mainly practised by Mormons, and Muslims.

I sincerely don't think there is any other way to get to heaven, but Jesus. Not Joseph Smith, nor Mohammed. So I want to see the Christian church adopt (with carefulness, for God's glory, and with love and care, with consideration for the women, and not to fulfil unrestrained lusts and sexual insatiableness) the truth that Polygamy is a permissible form of marriage.

I want to see a Christian church that accepts polygamy, but for the women's sakes, not for perverts' lusts' sakes. I believe polygamy should be a help, so that women who are having a hard time finding stability, a home, a good man (like widows (levirate marriage), single mothers, women with hard circumstances, etc). can find a home and a husband. NOT SO THAT 60 YEARS OLD CULT LEADERS CAN MARRY A BUNCH OF TEN YEARS OLDS.

I just see so much pain among women out there, I want to show them that there is another option. They don't have to keep being the sex-toy of guys who use them and dispose of them, like toilet paper. They can have a family, a home, children, peace. They don't have to be sinning out there, they can be married.

Yeah.

So I am willing to go to the streets, invite people to church, and be active. As long as I feel that the Christian friends I (hope to) make here are not perverts, but really have a heart for women, to help them, count me on, if you want to do stuff together, for preaching, distributing literature, organizing stuff, etc.

God bless you and keep you all.

Ron Paul 2012!

 

[MarvelousMarvin]

Welcome to Biblical Families, David!

My favorite Bible verse is Ephesians 5:25. If all men would take that verse to heart, this world would be a much better place.

 

[ylop]

Hi David777.

Welcome to biblical families. What a great first post, I bet you have been drafting that one in your head for a while!

Looking forward to your further contributions both in the forum and in real life.

Regards,

ylop

PS I hope Ron Paul gets in but must say it would be like an alternate universe.

 

[Taller on my knees]

Welcome to the board David!
I think you will find that most folks here agree with you wholeheartedly. There are some great articles in the teaching section and under the resources tab. If you like to read, I highly suggest the History of Marriage PDF file. It's long, but it makes some great points. Hope to hear more from you soon.

-Will

P.S. I hope Ron Paul wins too...and yes, it will be an alternate universe, but a good change from what we've been fed for so long.

 

[AussieGuy30]

Thanks for posting and I did value what you had to say, I think you sound like an honourable individual, and its clear the Lord is the centre of your life. God bless you sincerely.

Currently I am undecided on the plural marriage issue, but I must admit I am starting to lean towards plural marriage, based on the positive testimonies and theology coming out of this community and also from what I read in the Bible. But as i said, I am still undecided, for me to make a major doctrinal change it can take a long time and I need a number of confirmation from the Lord. I was a Pre Tribulation Rapture believer, but after immense study and searching, Im starting to lean toward mid/post trib rapture, I guess its the same with plural marriage, I need to study this and look at it objectively, pray to the Lord and not be judgemental but to actually listen to what people have to say, but most importantly listen to what is said in Gods word. I did have a friend that belonged to a Biblical Christian group that practiced plural marriage, and he gave a positive testimony from what he conveyed to me, he was not actually involved in any plural marriage but the leader of the Christian group was practicing this. This Christian group was definitely not a cult, they were an offshoot of Assembly of God which is a very well known and respected Pentecostal denomination.

I agree that perverts have no place in plural marriage. I also believe that a man should not take on more than one wife if he cannot afford it, I believe if Gods wants a person to be involved in plural marriage, he will provide abundant finances to provide for his other wives and children. I think finances are a big factor in plural marriage also, I think a woman needs to be financially secure, especially if children are involved.

I really appreciate your post David and am very interested in your ministry, and I hope you will keep people on here posted on how its going.

God bless you and look forward to chatting to you

 

[David777]

God bless you all, guys.

Aussie: You say a guy should be financially secure before being a polygamist, and I agree, and I would like to add the following:

A polygamist marriage could actually increase the income of a family. If you have 5 wives, 4 of them could have jobs making money, and you also have a job, and one wife takes care of the children. That's 5 incomes for one household. If one gets sick, the others support him/her. No wonder why many mormons in Colorado Arizona, Or Utah, have houses that are more like castles, with 20 or 30 bedrooms.

A polygamist marriage is a stronger economic unit, if you look at it from a purely wordly perspective.

A lion's pride's strenght is on its size. Ten lions can bring down a big animal easier than just two.

On the other hand, such thing as "security" does not really exist. Looking at it from a biblical perspective, no amount of money, or of wives, can give a person "security" that all will be well with him/her.

The greatest asset in a person's life is God's blessing. With God's blessing, it is all destined to succeed, but without God's blessing, no amount of money can make up for it. And God's blessing seems to depend on obedience, in the Bible. Abraham was blessed because he obeyed, and went out of his family's land, to an unknown land God was going to show him. Because he was willing to give his only son. Joshua, Caleb, were blessed because they obeyed and fought to take Canaan. Esther was blessed after obeying Mordecai, whose command was according to God's will. And time would fail me if I were to speak of all who were blessed because of their obedience. Saul disobeyed, and ended up badly. His son Jonathan obeyed God by standing firm for David, and Jonathan's son was saved and prospered, even if Jonathan died.

Now, I think God teaches us obedience like a father teaches his sons... through spankings. So I am in the learning process, aren't we all.

Shalom.

 

[David777]

Hi.

I just wanted to say...

I am 31 years old, I was raised Roman Catholic, by a fairly conservative family. I grew up in my grandparents home, since my parents were divorced, so I was raised in a very old fashioned way. In my school, I was quite the nerd, since I was not allowed to do many things, by my family (which is a good thing). So I didn't participate at all in the dating world, in school. Then, they sent me to college and paid for my education, and in college, I was very shy, when it came to girls, and I also was very afraid of doing mistakes, so I pretty much didn't participate at all in the dating world. I was so insecure, in my youth, and nerdy, but I think it all was for good.

Then, when I was about 20, the Jehovah's Witnesses knocked at my door and got me started into reading the Bible. So I started reading the whole Bible, and I was done after one year. Since then, I have been reading it habitually, and learning more and more, and now, my whole perspective on life has radically changed, from when I was 20.

I badly wanted to join the J.W. because it's a friendly organization of clean cut people, who are focused around the Bible and spiritual things, so that was like the perfect place where I could find friends and possibly a (much yearned for) wife. Also, I agreed with them that Jesus was only the "Son" of God, and not God himself. But I did not join them. Why? Because when I read the Bible I saw that polygamy was not forbidden, and the J.W. make polygamists divorce their wives, when they "evangelize" polygamists. I strongly disagreed with this. I thought they should be allowed to keep their wives.

Eventually, I did come to realize that Jesus is GOD, and not only his Son, but Jesus is THE Everlasting Father. So thank God I was not a J.W., already married to a J.W., when I came to this realization.

But I went to many different churches, and I am not as shy as before, and I always wanted a wife, but I didn't feel peace marrying someone who thought that polygamy IS adultery. What if I eventually get a second wife? (I thought). My first wife would divorce me and that would be very bad. I NEVER want to divorce.

Besides, for a woman to recognize that polygamy is not forbidden in the Bible, it requires as I view it, a basic degree of intellectual honesty. A separation between what her feelings say and what the text says. Basic honesty. I want someone who is honest.

So, in most churches the pastors want nothing to do with it, and I think it might be, in some cases, because the churches pay their salaries, and they have no alternative source of income if they start preaching this "heresy". Or, they would lose all the respect and prestige that being a pastor brings.

So I have "wasted" many marriage opportunities because I want someone who agrees with me in this.

And I DON'T want to be a polygamist. If I wanted to be a polygamist, I would be married right now. But I want to be a monogamist.

But I also am picky, since I want monogamy.
I would like to marry a virgin, who believes polygamy is acceptable, but who is at the same time a Christian. (At one point I had a romance opportunity with a beautiful mormon girl, but she believed Jesus is NOT God, and Michael is God. And she REQUIRED that I marry many wives, which is not my plan. At that time she was 16 and I was 28. So I was not willing, because of religious differences. She was a virgin and everything, but ended up abandoning our talks, because she didn't even want to consider that the Book of Mormon might be wrong. She didn't enjoy exploring the possibility that the B.O.M. might be a big fat lie.

I want a Christian who strives to obey God and whose God is the God of the Bible (Jesus). And who is honest, and truthful, and would even go against the whole world, to state truth (in kindness), even against her own emotions, to say the truth.

I have been the last years working hard, mostly working (my life has been just work, pretty much). I have never been to a rollercoaster, or to many amusement parks, or partied that much. I am more frugal than average, I'd say. I "buy used and save the difference", as the Duggars would say. I am not a friend of the world, because I can't just forget about Jesus. And in the church, I am not eligible, because of my belief that polygamy is not adultery, and I am not willing to outwardly change my opinion just to please them, or gain me a wife, through adapting my opinion to the liking of the church. I don't want to lie and pretend to believe a certain way, when I believe another.

I have been saving to buy a house and my mom, who is an architect and directs constructions, told me I've got enough.

So I want to get me a wife, who is a virgin, who believes polygamy is acceptable, but who would not mind monogamy, and who is a Christian.

I wonder if you people have any advice... (or daughters :mrgreen: )

Blessings.
David.

P.S. I am not a virgin, I have sinned. Also, at the present moment, I don't obey the Bible 100% in some areas. If I were to die right now and go to heaven, I would not go to heaven because I obey Jesus, but it would be completely unmerited, and completely because of His sacrifice. If complete obedience (holiness) is required to enter heaven, I would not enter, at this point. He's working on me, I guess. My sinfulness is quite spanking-resistant.

 

[CecilW]

Hmmm ... Well ...

It does seem that you are pretty durn FIXATED on virginity. I'd recommend abandoning the fixation. It is rather fleeting, after all, and only lasts until you've been with her the first time.

Besides, if God casts YOUR sins into the Sea of Forgetfulness and remembers them no more, might He not do the same with hers as well?

And if HE can't remember any past indiscretions to hold to her account, why should you? Is your memory better or more accurate than God's?

Btw, how do you square this fixation with all of your previously stated concern for prostitutes? And if one dies and is reborn as a new creation in Christ, isn't she spiritually a virgin? Isn't that good enough?

Congratulations on saving the money for a house. Enjoy building it -- construction is good fun. I built a Geo-Dome years ago. Great experience!

 

[ylop]

Hi David.

Congratulations for sticking to your beliefs regarding polygamy and remaining true to yourself rather than compromising.

The house is a great idea. Make sure to include plenty of large bedrooms in the design, just in case you have a change of mind later.

Personally, I think it is unfair to insist on a virgin if you are not one yourself. You may find a person who is a good Christian but had a moment of weakness in times past. There are plenty of other ways to sin besides sex. As long as the person has truly repented, then the old is gone and the new has come.

ylop

 

[lights12]

Hi David,
Welcome. Can I share a couple things with you, because I can see that your heart is so good. You are right about divorce being terrible for families, and single moms do have to work a lot, and I agree that PM can certainly be a wonderful blessing to a single mom and a benefit to a family as a unit. I appreciate so much that you can see the pain women face everyday and so many do not see that. I did struggle as a single mom and I did not want to divorce at all. My husband did cheat and we did divorce because he didn't stop I gave him a long time to change. I stayed with him and tried to make it work, but he didn't cheat because he couldn't tell me he wanted another wife. He cheated because he is obsessed with sex. He cheated on me, he cheated on his next fiance, and then his next wife and every girlfriend he has had since. I met him at 17 in college and we didn't marry til I was 23, we owned a business together, a home, and had two children. We were like best friends, business partners, and in love all at the same time. He would have loved to stay married to me and just be able to keep cheating, but he didn't want a wife other than me, he just wanted women. I don't think a Godly man who follows the scripture and believes in having more than one wife would ever cheat maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't think so. He is a sinner in a far greater way, I'm sure, than a girl who is not a virgin, not that it is mine to judge.

Additionally, I want to let you know that it is not optimal for one person to raise children. I have wished I was re-married, but in truth, other than my fiance who passed away, I have not met a truly good man who loved me or most importantly who would care for my children. The wonderful thing is that despite my own sins in life and my faith sometimes wavering, if you have faith and follow the scripture and pray even as a single mom you can always there for them. They did go to a Christian daycare for a while and also had a babysitter in our own home that was our neighbor and loved them. My son was in a 1/2 day YMCA program for his Kindergarten year. Nothing ever came before them, not work, not a man, nothing. If they needed me I left work or anything else I was doing. They are still my life. They are both in college, both received large scholastic scholarships to private colleges. My son however is so good and so moral, he left his college and is now going to community college because the kids at his college were not good kids, they partied and were stuck up and even his NCAA wresting team cheated on weigh ins. They live at home and we are very close and I still go to wrestling practices and dance class for my daughter and they are almost 20 and 23.

I am only telling you this to let you know that, you are right I have had pain and suffering for almost 20 years. I really did not even have an idea about polygamy 20 years ago other than the negative stereotypes. I wish I had known, because I believe that God intended for a patriarchal family unit and I would have loved having a sister wife as well. My life and my children's lives would have been so much easier and better. However, I know I can still have that happen through faith and love and prayer. It is with that same faith and love and prayer though that I survived, and my children are wonderful. Sometimes God's path for a person is hard, but not everything is black and white. I am glad you are so willing to truly want to help women like me and I am so glad you are strong in your faith. I know that had I not had my struggle, I may not have been led to my current beliefs and be rejoicing in God's love on this site, for instance. So keep an open mind and heart there is so much negativity in the world and no love at all it seems half the time. Sometimes though a negative can be turned into a positive. I took lemons and made lemonade. Anything is possible with the love of Christ in your heart.
1 John 4:7-8 KJV
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
This always reminds me that no matter what, anyone that can love is of God, (we are all sinners this is true) but only those that do not love are not of God.

Jen M.

 

[David777]

CecilW :

It's hard to choose the desires of one's own heart. I do agree with all you say, but how could I be who I am not?
About my concern for women out there who are single and not virgins, that is what I think polygamy is for. So, I would encourage you, if you have the means, and are willing to enter polygamy, to "adopt" many, to help them out, and provide them with family, love, and a Christian education for their children. Meaning, I think a girl is far better off with a polygamist who will give their children a good christian education, than with someone else, even a monogamist, who will not educate the children well.

Now, my interpretation of 1 Timothy 3:2 makes me want to be a monogamist. I figure that if I have only one wife, it will be easier to reach the world with the truth. Like, being more public. This guy Kody Brown is very public, and I salute him for that, although I really don't think mormonism is the way to go to heaven. Anyway, so, I want monogamy, because of 1 Timothy 3:2. If I wanted polygamy, I would be married long ago, I suppose.

Can I ask you how many wives do you have? If you do not feel free to publicly say it, PM me. If you PM me, I will not make the information public, if so you wish.

YLOP: I also want to marry someone who is white. That's unfair too, because a person can not change her color. It doesn't depend on her. But how could I choose to feel attracted to who I don't feel attracted to? Or choose to want what I don't want, or not want what I do want?

Lights: I am sorry to hear about your previous husband. It's dangerous, if he's sleeping around. That's not polygamy, that's fornication. Israel was not sleeping around, he had stable wives. I think guys are naturally inclined to have more females, because we are made different. Males, among all or most mammals, have a massive reproduction strategy, while females have a selective reproduction strategy. What maximizes the chances of survival for the chromosomes of males is getting the biggest number of females pregnant. That way, if the children of one female die, the children of the others will survive. Females, instead, have a selective strategy. Since they can not get pregnant of many males at the same time, they tend to try to choose the best male they can find. Males instead tend to try to sleep with ALL females they can find.

Now, males don't think in our societies:"I want to have as many children as possible". But the URGE to fornicate, or the urge for sex is born of the male nature, the natural instincts of males, as opposed to those of females. Females don't think "I want this male to give me healthy children", but instinctively feel attracted to "bad boys" (who tend to sleep around, or at least have the characteristics of those who sleep around), because such a male offers chromosomes that are more likely to spread and reproduce.

Meaning: if a male is spreading his chromosomes like crazy, then a female wants to have that kind of chromosomes to get mixed with hers, so that when SHE has children, her own male children will be more likely to spread her own chromosomes as well.
This all happens subconsciously, instinctively.

This is why women should be under the authority of their FATHERS, or (experienced) mothers, if they are raised by a single mother. Because women simply can't choose well, until they go through some pains, but then, nobody wants to go through those pains.

Our carnal natures are opposed to The Spirit, and frequently we act carnally, which doesn't bring good results. Instead, following the Spirit is life... So I think we men should resist our carnal impulses and try to think with our head, and follow what the Bible says. And women, the same. I think this is the best path to marriage: A man sees a girl, she is godly, and only after determining she is godly, man goes to her father, and asks for her hand. If man, his parents, her parents, and she agrees, it's like God is turning all the green lights on. But going against her parents, even if she agrees, does not seem like God is turning the green lights on. Same for a girl. If her father (parents) don't agree, and she goes on anyway with a guy, I don't think it's a good idea. If she follows God, she will take heed on what her father (or mother, like Ruth did) says. And God will provide.

 

[CecilW]

CecilW: Can I ask you how many wives do you have? If you do not feel free to publicly say it, PM me. If you PM me, I will not make the information public, if so you wish.

Enough. :lol: If God thinks I should have more, or am up to the task, He's welcome to provide. (Prov 18:22?)