• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

The marriage of divorced persons.

mando222

Member
Real Person
Male
First off I know there will be a lot of strong feelings caused by this post. Please understand that I am not trying to be judgmental of anyone else here. I am trying to seek direction and follow the commands of my Lord and Savior in all things. I have recently gotten to know a woman who is a divorcee. She would be interested in a relationship and to be honest she checks all the boxes I have and then some. We get along wonderfully and a relationship would just feel natural if I took things in that direction with her. That is the event that triggered my latest dive into the topic of divorce and remarrying. I am not just trying to gain a 100% conviction on that point but more to gain the whole picture. I have studied this in-depth in the past and definitely understand much of it but this situation has challenged me to examine that I am not in error.

First I think it is important to understand the difference and appending changes that were made by Jesus in the way divorce would work going forward for the church vs how they worked before his coming.

Deuteronomy 24:1-4 ESV​

“When a man takes a wife and marries her, if then she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, and she departs out of his house, and if she goes and becomes another man's wife, and the latter man hates her and writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, or if the latter man dies, who took her to be his wife, then her former husband, who sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after she has been defiled, for that is an abomination before the Lord. And you shall not bring sin upon the land that the Lord your God is giving you for an inheritance.

This passage from Deuteronomy clearly allows the man to divorce his wife by simply handing her a certificate of divorce and sending her back to her father's house. In this case, it would also seem from the second half of the passage that there would be nothing preventing her from remarrying to another. If she were to marry another the original husband would forever and always become off-limits to her. The sin cited at the end of this passage clearly seems to be the remarrying of the original spouse after having another marriage commitment.

So now let's look at the revolution Jesus provided about the heart of Father God on this topic.

Matthew 19:3-9 ESV​

And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?” He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

Here Jesus and the Pharisees are clearly referring to the previously discussed passage in Deuteronomy. One thing that has always struck me as interesting here is that Jesus calls this out as not God allowing for divorce but "Moses allowed you to divorce your wives". Right after saying this he clearly states that "from the beginning it was not so". This would indicate that God had always had a heart opposed to what was written in the old testament law. To my knowledge, this is the only place in the bible where that sort of thing is called out and this is one of the most misapplied facts that I have heard when people argue against polygyny misguidedly grouping divorce and polygyny together so that they can somehow conflate them both as against the will of Father God.

What I see this passage as saying is that the old law on this specific issue did not capture the heart of Father God just in the same way that the law of the Pharisees didn't. Jesus then goes on to clarify Father's clear intentions on this issue "And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.” This would indicate if you divorce on any grounds other than sexual immorality and marry again you have committed adultery. Jesus also talks about this more in-depth in the next passage.

Matthew 5:31-32 ESV​

“It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

In this passage, we see that if no adultery was present and a man divorced his wife he causes her to commit adultery. We also see that this is not the case when adultery has entered the picture as there is no reference to the woman committing further adultery by the divorce. In this case, there was no mention of remarriage or anything other than the divorce that caused the adultery to occur. No mention is made of the man being found in adultery. No mention is made about if he can remarry.

The first question I have that I really don't have the linguistics skills to answer is that of the context of the last part of that passage. "and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery." Is this talking about the woman divorced outside the grounds of sexual immortality or is this encompassing every woman who has ever been in divorce regardless of the reasons and biblical morality of that divorce? It seems from the context and the bit of diving into the wording of the old languages around this issue hard for me to have a strong leaning either way. In most cases, I would not need to solidify this quite so strongly for myself as I have many other biblical studies that would be of immediate value to me and my house. Since I am faced with an instance of potential marriage however I am earnestly trying to understand this. I acknowledge that there is grace for me if I somehow misstep but I just don't want to misstep in the first place.

To be very clear I am not searching through this with a heart of self-justification or legalistically attempting to lawyer perceived guilt away. I am seeking to know if what I am considering is allowable or if it is something I should flee temptation on. Discussion welcome.
 
This would indicate that God had always had a heart opposed to what was written in the old testament law. To my knowledge, this is the only place in the bible where that sort of thing is called out and this is one of the most misapplied facts that I have heard when people argue against polygyny misguidedly grouping divorce and polygyny together so that they can somehow conflate them both as against the will of Father God.

sometimes I feel divorce and polygyny are grouped not by mistake but intentionly. Just by ignoring that you can marry another wive and NOT divorcing from the firstone
 
This would indicate that God had always had a heart opposed to what was written in the old testament law. To my knowledge, this is the only place in the bible where that sort of thing is called out and this is one of the most misapplied facts that I have heard when people argue against polygyny misguidedly grouping divorce and polygyny together so that they can somehow conflate them both as against the will of Father God.

sometimes I feel divorce and polygyny are grouped not by mistake but intentionly. Just by ignoring that you can marry another wive and NOT divorcing from the firstone
I would agree.
 
Matthew 5:31-32 (KJV) 31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

A man can put a wife away without divorcing her.
If he puts her away without a get, paper of divorcement, she cannot get remarried without her marriage bed being defiled. She and her new husband are both committing adultery. Her original husband is causing the adultery by not giving her the get, so she isn’t free to remarry and he carries the guilt of the adultery.

You are on the wrong track with your assumptions about Moses statement vs Yah’s will.
 
Matthew 5:31-32 (KJV) 31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

A man can put a wife away without divorcing her.
If he puts her away without a get, paper of divorcement, she cannot get remarried without her marriage bed being defiled. She and her new husband are both committing adultery. Her original husband is causing the adultery by not giving her the get, so she isn’t free to remarry and he carries the guilt of the adultery.

You are on the wrong track with your assumptions about Moses statement vs Yah’s will.
An interesting perspective to be sure.

This is definitely a place where KJV differs from most other translations. I honestly (at risk of starting a translation war) am not a fan of the KJV in general due to where it came from and the number of revisions over the last couple hundred years. I totally agree though if of your interpretation of the language it uses. This is one of the reasons I am looking to take it back to the OG languages. I have found a ton of variance between translations NIV, KJV, ESV, and NASB when trying to get clarity here.

One other point that I struggle with on the put away the wife type situation is the command not to withhold from each other.
 
First I think it is important to understand the difference and appending changes that were made by Jesus in the way divorce would work going forward for the church vs how they worked before his coming.

This statement is flawed. Yeshua did not "change the rules" about divorce. His statements must be understood within the already established law that he delivered at Mt. Sinai.

One thing to consider is that putting away is not the exact same thing as divorce. Also it does make a huge difference if the woman divorced her husband that is not legitimate. There is no provision in all of the Bible for the woman to divorce her husband.
 
First off I know there will be a lot of strong feelings caused by this post. Please understand that I am not trying to be judgmental of anyone else here. I am trying to seek direction and follow the commands of my Lord and Savior in all things. I have recently gotten to know a woman who is a divorcee. She would be interested in a relationship and to be honest she checks all the boxes I have and then some. We get along wonderfully and a relationship would just feel natural if I took things in that direction with her. That is the event that triggered my latest dive into the topic of divorce and remarrying. I am not just trying to gain a 100% conviction on that point but more to gain the whole picture. I have studied this in-depth in the past and definitely understand much of it but this situation has challenged me to examine that I am not in error.

First I think it is important to understand the difference and appending changes that were made by Jesus in the way divorce would work going forward for the church vs how they worked before his coming.

Deuteronomy 24:1-4 ESV​

“When a man takes a wife and marries her, if then she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, and she departs out of his house, and if she goes and becomes another man's wife, and the latter man hates her and writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, or if the latter man dies, who took her to be his wife, then her former husband, who sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after she has been defiled, for that is an abomination before the Lord. And you shall not bring sin upon the land that the Lord your God is giving you for an inheritance.

This passage from Deuteronomy clearly allows the man to divorce his wife by simply handing her a certificate of divorce and sending her back to her father's house. In this case, it would also seem from the second half of the passage that there would be nothing preventing her from remarrying to another. If she were to marry another the original husband would forever and always become off-limits to her. The sin cited at the end of this passage clearly seems to be the remarrying of the original spouse after having another marriage commitment.

So now let's look at the revolution Jesus provided about the heart of Father God on this topic.

Matthew 19:3-9 ESV​

And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?” He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

Here Jesus and the Pharisees are clearly referring to the previously discussed passage in Deuteronomy. One thing that has always struck me as interesting here is that Jesus calls this out as not God allowing for divorce but "Moses allowed you to divorce your wives". Right after saying this he clearly states that "from the beginning it was not so". This would indicate that God had always had a heart opposed to what was written in the old testament law. To my knowledge, this is the only place in the bible where that sort of thing is called out and this is one of the most misapplied facts that I have heard when people argue against polygyny misguidedly grouping divorce and polygyny together so that they can somehow conflate them both as against the will of Father God.

What I see this passage as saying is that the old law on this specific issue did not capture the heart of Father God just in the same way that the law of the Pharisees didn't. Jesus then goes on to clarify Father's clear intentions on this issue "And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.” This would indicate if you divorce on any grounds other than sexual immorality and marry again you have committed adultery. Jesus also talks about this more in-depth in the next passage.

Matthew 5:31-32 ESV​

“It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

In this passage, we see that if no adultery was present and a man divorced his wife he causes her to commit adultery. We also see that this is not the case when adultery has entered the picture as there is no reference to the woman committing further adultery by the divorce. In this case, there was no mention of remarriage or anything other than the divorce that caused the adultery to occur. No mention is made of the man being found in adultery. No mention is made about if he can remarry.

The first question I have that I really don't have the linguistics skills to answer is that of the context of the last part of that passage. "and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery." Is this talking about the woman divorced outside the grounds of sexual immortality or is this encompassing every woman who has ever been in divorce regardless of the reasons and biblical morality of that divorce? It seems from the context and the bit of diving into the wording of the old languages around this issue hard for me to have a strong leaning either way. In most cases, I would not need to solidify this quite so strongly for myself as I have many other biblical studies that would be of immediate value to me and my house. Since I am faced with an instance of potential marriage however I am earnestly trying to understand this. I acknowledge that there is grace for me if I somehow misstep but I just don't want to misstep in the first place.

To be very clear I am not searching through this with a heart of self-justification or legalistically attempting to lawyer perceived guilt away. I am seeking to know if what I am considering is allowable or if it is something I should flee temptation on. Discussion welcome.
My first recommendation is to read William Luck's Divorce and Remarriage.

I entirely agree with you about the KJV -- or perhaps I should just say that I consider it the most polluted translation of His Word ever created by humankind, so perhaps you and I only partially agree.

We have thrashed all this out on many occasions here on Biblical Families, but I'll repeat my take on Scripture: the bulk of the sin of adultery associated with a woman being divorced by a man is on the shoulders of that man; thus the proscription against a man remarrying a woman he first divorced. In fact, I interpret Scripture to be consistent in regard to mainly being guidelines designed to protect women. At the time of Christ, the Jewish population was up in arms about divorce, with the primary battle lines being dawn between those who thought divorce should be reserved for very strict circumstances and those who thought a man should be almost entirely free to divorce a woman for any reason.

Some here believe a divorced woman should never be chosen by a true believer. I disagree. I counsel being cautious about where her heart is now, and whether she demonstrates a willingness to be led from whatever level of misinterpretation about marriage in which she has engaged up until the present. Personally, I would only hesitate to marry a divorced woman if she wrongly did the divorcing and was even just predominantly unrepentant about it.

Also it does make a huge difference if the woman divorced her husband that is not legitimate.

Amen.

And every woman needs covering, even the divorced.
 
One other point that I struggle with on the put away the wife type situation is the command not to withhold from each other.

I assume you are taking this from 1 Corinthians 7?

You can't separate that from the rest of the Bible. Paul is giving good counsel but he isn't saying that you must continue intimacy with your woman when she is in rebellion. For instance King David "put away" his concubines after they committed adultery with Absalom... But he didn't "divorce" them...

Yah doesn't micromanage the frequency of sex between a man and his woman / women that's not what Paul was saying.
 
This is one of the reasons I am looking to take it back to the OG languages.
Strongs would be a good place to start.
You will find that two different Greek words were used, but your ESV completely ignored that.
 
You will find that two different Greek words were used, but your ESV completely ignored that.
To the extent that the English Standard Version attempted to source original Hebrew and Greek texts, I applaud that, but, @steve, you've highlighted the ESV's main weakness: the project was only concerned with revising 8% of the text, so the remaining 92% was almost entirely taken straight from the Revised Standard Version, which was straight-up revised from the King James Version, which was a project intended to freak the English back into the pews and create reconciliation between the Anglican and Roman Churches -- and thus very purposefully heavily relied on the purposefully-mistranslated Latin Vulgate. Anyway, if one doesn't like the KJV, one maybe should be wary of the ESV, because what it comes down to is colloquialized KJV content that was further altered by its project team leader Wayne Grudem's insistence on excising any religious liberalism from the RSV. It is therefore, though, one of the more popular choices for Calvinists, just as is Grudem's Systematic Theology.

I do, though, plead guilty to dragging this thread off course. I've already articulated my viewpoint on divorce, so peace out.
 
but, @steve, you've highlighted the ESV's main weakness:
Yeah, that was my point.

Just for grins and giggles, where I came from we referred to the RSV as the Reviled Substandard perVersion.
 
Back to the OP, for most of us it’s going to come down to the details of the divorce itself.
Some circumstances would definitely be a problem.
 
Did anyone consider concept of victim?

If woman hasn't done any sexual immorality and is throw out of house is for her finding new husband forbidden? At first look it seems so. But think again.

She is victim of her's husband bad behaviour. Forbidding new marriage for her is punishing her for her's husbands sin. In any law it is crazy to punish victim. That's is in essence rewarding evil because they stay unpunished.

By using above logic she is free to marry again.
 
Just wondering....(?) What was the salvation situation of the man and woman when the divorce occured? Has God saved her post divorce?
In this particular case both unsaved at the time. From what I see though that doesn't really affect things biblically unless you know something I missed.
 
I spent some time going through the Greek this morning and some fairly interesting things came up.

Firstly the word for divorce in the original text would more properly be translated into fully freed one or freed person. In both places where divorce is mentioned in the original passage I linked the same word is used is used. If taking the passage at face value from the Greek it would seem that any marriage of a divorced woman specifically is disallowed. Since the last part of Matthew 5:32 literally says anyone who marries a fully freed woman commits adultery. It seems very clear in this case that the woman has not committed adultery but the man has. They're also doesn't seem to be any concession for circumstance that I was able to see and believe me I looked hard. The only criteria around any of it I was able to find was that she was in fact a freed woman. This does paint a rather serious picture of the gravity of marriage and making sure you get it right the first time as it basically only allows for one shot under any circumstances.

To be clear I'm not making a judgmental argument against anyone here or anyone's personal convictions. I am just trying to take an honest look at the text removing my own desires societal and preconceived moral stances. I find it helpful to do this when truly seeking God's truth on a difficult issue. I understand there are some uncomfortable implications of this but it does seem to be stated fairly plainly in the original Greek. Disclaimer I am not a master of the Greek language in any way shape or form, nor do I claim to be any form of a spiritual authority outside of my household. Just thought I would share that finding here in the hopes someone else might find them useful.

In this particular case I don't feel I can in good conscience pursue the woman in my original post. It's a real bummer but I trust that God knows what's best for me and my life despite how tasty the fruit looks at the moment.
 
Firstly the word for divorce in the original text would more properly be translated into fully freed one or freed person. In both places where divorce is mentioned in the original passage I linked the same word is used is used.
That is false.

1652978080283.png

Being put away without a bill of divorcement is not a divorce.
 
There is a different Greek word for an actual divorce:
1652979764757.png
 
Back
Top