Who should offer marital advice?

[MemeFan]

Sometimes it seems like you are trying to see how insulting you can be and get away with it. What you are accomplishing is showing how little you really understand.

@PastorLarry I apologize for the insensitivity being displayed here.

@MemeFan, you don't have a clue what you are talking about and are being an insulting arsehole. Shut up.

I was passing my non answered threads and I just couldn't pass this.

Reality is that being nice to spare feelings is way more damaging that direct in face truth telling. Truth telling hurts once and pain goes out, especially fas,t when taking "painful advice" makes you like better.

Keeping someone in his illusions is actually not providing exit from often mental bondage. We don't have to pull them out (that's their job), but offering exit is good per se.

At least @PastorLarry at least deserves to know key reason for failure of his marriage. I was my mistake not to stand against you and tell him hidden dimension. What dimension?

To anyone looking at his description of marriage it is obvious there were severe issues with attraction between him and wife. Severe enough to made marriage not viable.

Remember, attraction is measure of how much children making is desirable. Without this there is no couple, only roommates. Why stay married to roommate? It makes no sense.

What makes sense is actually find someone else better suited for children making. We don't have infinite time.

What was my "sin"? Telling @PastorLarry how to generate attraction.

 

[FollowingHim]

@MemeFan, what I said in the post you have quoted was that you didn't have a clue what you were talking about in this particular case. I stand by that, and if you disagree, do tell us again how many years you've been married for.

You have a lot of good things to contribute on some topics, but other times you don't have a clue and are best to keep your mouth shut, leaving the floor to those who actually have experience to give advice that is founded on that experience. This was one of those times, it was not the first and almost certainly won't be the last.

This is a marriage advice forum, and when it comes to actual situations in people's lives, I do have a duty to ensure that the advice people receive is at least reasonable, otherwise the forum is not serving its primary purpose. So in such cases I will occasionally tell people who are not contributing positively to stop talking, specifically in order to give greater hearing to the words of those who are actually able to help, and make no apology for doing so.

In your case, as you speak bluntly yourself, I spoke in the same tone to ensure you heard it clearly.

 

[MemeFan]

@MemeFan, what I said in the post you have quoted was that you didn't have a clue what you were talking about in this particular case. I stand by that, and if you disagree, do tell us again how many years you've been married for.

You have a lot of good things to contribute on some topics, but other times you don't have a clue and are best to keep your mouth shut, leaving the floor to those who actually have experience to give advice that is founded on that experience. This was one of those times, it was not the first and almost certainly won't be the last.

This is a marriage advice forum, and when it comes to actual situations in people's lives, I do have a duty to ensure that the advice people receive is at least reasonable, otherwise the forum is not serving its primary purpose. So in such cases I will occasionally tell people who are not contributing positively to stop talking, specifically in order to give greater hearing to the words of those who are actually able to help, and make no apology for doing so.

In your case, as you speak bluntly yourself, I spoke in the same tone to ensure you heard it clearly.

If marriage is dying it's attraction issue. If attraction is OK and communication is bad, then complaint would be "we love each other very much, we are just fighting whole time!".

I learned from THE BEST.

Btw, you are mentioned in full post. That's how I did found the post.

Relevant parts of @Eristhophanes epic:

He stands in front of her, lifts her arms over her head and gently but firmly pins her wrists against the wall with one hand. Which brings them kissing close and puts her breasts on display, completely undefended. Her acute awareness of that generates some sexual tension and she starts shifting out of rational and conscious thought as her hind-brain gets involved. With that free hand, he grabs a handful of her hair and starts kissing her. If she likes it she will communicate that with the way she kisses him because she'll have tingles running up and down her body. Her hind-brain starts taking over. Then, after he starts kissing her he lets go of her hair and his hand starts slowly sliding down her face toward her neck and her mind is spinning wondering where that hand is going. The tension generated by the uncertainty is exhilarating.

His hand stops, grasps her throat and he gently places just a little pressure as if he was choking her. He symbolically has her life in his hand. That's more dominance and her hind-brain really starts spinning because its now in control. He gets direct feedback because she's still kissing him. The hand slowly moves back up to her chin to direct the kissing, back down to the throat, perhaps a little lower. He's teasing her because what he's doing isn't predictable and the uncertainty generates tension and excitement. She's aroused and she wants that hand on her breasts. When his hand slides down her throat going lower the tension subsides a bit because finally she thinks she knows what's going to happen. And when that hand bypasses her breasts and slowly travels down her belly, the sexual tension spikes, she gets a huge surge of dopamine and adrenalin in her system and he's in complete control. If she's comfortably private enough the sex will happen unless something happens to derail the situation.

There are a lot of variations on this but it's calibrated behavior because he has the feedback of her kissing him and she will respond to what she likes. He might stop kissing her for a moment and tell her to leave her hands where they are. Not ask her, tell her. He goes back to kissing her and that other hand slowly starts sliding down one of her arms. There's the compliance aspects of her obeying his command (she's investing in this), the increased tension of both of his hands being freely touching her, the unpredictable teasing and uncertainty, the flood of dopamine and adrenalin in her system, the bottom line is she is no longer thinking or acting in a conscious or rational manner. The limbic system (hind-brain) is in control responding to biological attraction and once that train builds up speed it has inertia and is very difficult to stop. The tracks lead to only one place.

Since his wife isn't willing to sleep with him and happy time together is very good bonding experience, more talk about duties won't help.

Only way I see to save his marriage is by making them sleep together. And since wife has religious inhibitions, he must make her extremely horny for any action to happen.

Allowing me to qoute myself so that I don't have to write same message again:

We use mental models to explain how world works. If mental models contains issue and gaping hole, it can't correctly explain world. This is why someone with bookish knowlegde can defeat "expert". Better understanding of world with "beginner" mindset in unbeatable.

Sad really is that if people here would only absorb @Eristhophanes epic, 85+% of marriage support workload would dissapear.

And if I tell you number of my marriage years what good it will be? Can you evaluate quality just by checking advice itself?

If you can't it means you don't trust your mental models in this today. Good shepherd can just by talking with other people understand how much other people understand sheep shaving.

I understand if you consider other issues more important. But can fixing other issue enable marriage to go in right direction relatively fast and provide stabile foundation at the same time?

 

[FollowingHim]

Can you evaluate quality just by checking advice itself?

Yes. Your advice was poor. You do not understand why it was poor because you do not have the experience to see how to apply @Eristhophanes "epic" to real life. You have lots of theoretical head knowledge, and much of the details in that knowledge are correct, but in its application there is a lot of nuance which you simply do not understand. You know many individual trees but don't have a map of the forest.

In particular, you do not understand female psychology in the way you would had you had years of experience living with at least one of them. As a result, you proposed blunt actions that, most likely, would actually make the situation worse - even though the exact same principles could be applied differently to strengthen a marriage.

It is good for you to learn from @Eristhophanes. It would also be good for you to learn from people like @steve. It would be even better if your entire focus here was on learning, so that you could have a successful marriage of your own, and if you refrained from offering marital advice. Because the advice you offer is only second-hand, copied from others whose advice you think is good, and therefore errors creep into it. Once you have applied your learnings to a marriage with a real woman for a few years, your head-knowledge will be tempered and refined by experience, and you will be in a position where you can actually be of assistance to someone who has problems in their marriage.

At this stage, you are generally not of assistance, and are at a high risk of actually harming someone's marriage if they were to follow the error-ridden advice that you give. Your role here is as a student of marriage, not a teacher.

 

[steve]

Yes. Your advice was poor. You do not understand why it was poor because you do not have the experience to see how to apply @Eristhophanes "epic" to real life. You have lots of theoretical head knowledge, and much of the details in that knowledge are correct, but in its application there is a lot of nuance which you simply do not understand. You know many individual trees but don't have a map of the forest.

In particular, you do not understand female psychology in the way you would had you had years of experience living with at least one of them. As a result, you proposed blunt actions that, most likely, would actually make the situation worse - even though the exact same principles could be applied differently to strengthen a marriage.

It is good for you to learn from @Eristhophanes. It would also be good for you to learn from people like @steve. It would be even better if your entire focus here was on learning, so that you could have a successful marriage of your own, and if you refrained from offering marital advice. Because the advice you offer is only second-hand, copied from others whose advice you think is good, and therefore errors creep into it. Once you have applied your learnings to a marriage with a real woman for a few years, your head-knowledge will be tempered and refined by experience, and you will be in a position where you can actually be of assistance to someone who has problems in their marriage.

At this stage, you are generally not of assistance, and are at a high risk of actually harming someone's marriage if they were to follow the error-ridden advice that you give. Your role here is as a student of marriage, not a teacher.

I couldn’t have said it better.
Shucks, I couldn’t have said it half this good.

 

[steve]

@MemeFan you are extremely smart, but wisdom is obtained through experience.
You can learn wisdom from other people’s mistakes, but not if you already know it all.

 

[MemeFan]

Yes. Your advice was poor. You do not understand why it was poor because you do not have the experience to see how to apply @Eristhophanes "epic" to real life. You have lots of theoretical head knowledge, and much of the details in that knowledge are correct, but in its application there is a lot of nuance which you simply do not understand. You know many individual trees but don't have a map of the forest.

In particular, you do not understand female psychology in the way you would had you had years of experience living with at least one of them. As a result, you proposed blunt actions that, most likely, would actually make the situation worse - even though the exact same principles could be applied differently to strengthen a marriage.

It is good for you to learn from @Eristhophanes. It would also be good for you to learn from people like @steve. It would be even better if your entire focus here was on learning, so that you could have a successful marriage of your own, and if you refrained from offering marital advice. Because the advice you offer is only second-hand, copied from others whose advice you think is good, and therefore errors creep into it. Once you have applied your learnings to a marriage with a real woman for a few years, your head-knowledge will be tempered and refined by experience, and you will be in a position where you can actually be of assistance to someone who has problems in their marriage.

At this stage, you are generally not of assistance, and are at a high risk of actually harming someone's marriage if they were to follow the error-ridden advice that you give. Your role here is as a student of marriage, not a teacher.

Except in my personal experience seduction remains best way to save failing relationshiop. Done it several times.

Can you explain why my advice was poor? In best case for you, your intuition is right and you lack words.

Have you maybe considered possibility you may be wrong. Rockets can't self land because idea is crazy and anyone who tried has failed it. Or should I add sailing around Earth is impossible.

What often happens is that our experience becomes our prisons because we confuse real limits of world with limits of experience.

 

[MemeFan]

@MemeFan you are extremely smart, but wisdom is obtained through experience.
You can learn wisdom from other people’s mistakes, but not if you already know it all.

Except I do use way more advisors that you think. Most aren't even on this forum.

And epistemiology is interesting reading. You know, what we truly know and can know.

I think you are way more sure in your experience than I in mine. How often did you even try to search what is absolute best or best know way to achieve something? Just fixing problem doesn't count.

 

[steve]

Except I do use way more advisors that you think. Most aren't even on this forum.

And epistemiology is interesting reading. You know, what we truly know and can know.

I think you are way more sure in your experience than I in mine. How often did you even try to search what is absolute best or best know way to achieve something? Just fixing problem doesn't count.

 

[FollowingHim]

Except in my personal experience seduction remains best way to save failing relationshiop. Done it several times.

And have any of those relationships lasted to become a successful long-term marriage? Or are they a string of failures, the failure of each having been delayed temporarily through seduction?

See, that's one truth, but only a small part of the whole that is marriage. Your error is thinking problems are that easily papered over with sex. Seduction can keep things going for one more evening, but the problems (whatever it was that was causing the marriage to fail) may still remain festering below the surface, and must still be addressed. Seduction is not the solution, just a bandage, and may in fact constitute ignoring the real issues.

 

[MemeFan]

And have any of those relationships lasted to become a successful long-term marriage? Or are they a string of failures, the failure of each having been delayed temporarily through seduction?

See, that's one truth, but only a small part of the whole that is marriage. Your error is thinking problems are that easily papered over with sex. Seduction can keep things going for one more evening, but the problems (whatever it was that was causing the marriage to fail) may still remain festering below the surface, and must still be addressed. Seduction is not the solution, just a bandage, and may in fact constitute ignoring the real issues.

There was single relationship with girl who become deadly sick (she could die).

Ultimate case of failure is no progression
relationship. I didn't want official marriage, I wanted children which never happened because her health never stabilized.

You are overcomplicating with marriage is big complex thing. It's not.

 

[MemeFan]

View attachment 10027

Let @The Revolting Man introduce you to certain colonel Boyd. Enjoy full OODA loop.


You know @steve first step is being less certain into your knowledge.

 

[MemeFan]

@FollowingHim,

Where is answer why my advice is bad?

 

[MrB]

@FollowingHim,

Where is answer why my advice is bad?

If you can’t see it for yourself now , nobody will be able to explain it in a way that you understand.
Maybe in a few years the light will turn on.

 

[FollowingHim]

@FollowingHim,

Where is answer why my advice is bad?

Your error is thinking problems are that easily papered over with sex. Seduction can keep things going for one more evening, but the problems (whatever it was that was causing the marriage to fail) may still remain festering below the surface, and must still be addressed. Seduction is not the solution, just a bandage, and may in fact constitute ignoring the real issues.

 

[steve]

You know @steve first step is being less certain into your knowledge

I’m sure that you are right.
I mean, what was I thinking? How could I disagree with a man who has read books?

 

[MemeFan]

No, sex isn't my advice.

My advice is to generate attraction of which sex is consequence and proof it exists.

Method for generating attraction is dominance which universally ladies do find attractive. Touch also important, although not primary role.

Both sex itself and touch will generative bonding which will function as cement in relationship keeping them together.

This doesn't mean they won't have other issues, but now they will want to stay together which will make them both to consider mutually pleasing solutions.

You know if couple is to stay together, they have to think us, not what is good for me. How to propose to move minds into us category? Logic?

This is basic redpill advice and key reason why it works. There is reason better communication doesn't works. What makes you think so?

Btw, this proves you, @steve and @MrB failed to learn from @Eristhophanes.

Attraction is sociological and biological basis of marriage. It's existence means both members of couple want to have children together.

Strangely how institution which only exist because of children suddenly becomes workable after primary actors start to want to have children together. I wonder why?

 

[MemeFan]

I’m sure that you are right.
I mean, what was I thinking? How could I disagree with a man who has read books?

Keep laughting.

Strangely, I'm only one here with interest in learning. Why else to demand answer where I'm wrong?

Meanwhile you think you are dealing with moron and find whole situation funny. When 2030 arrives who will understand world better?

 

[The Revolting Man]

Keep laughting.

Strangely, I'm only one here with interest in learning. Why else to demand answer where I'm wrong?

Meanwhile you think you are dealing with moron and find whole situation funny. When 2030 arrives who will understand world better?

What happens in 2030?

 

[MemeFan]

What happens in 2030?

It's 5 years. Enough to result in visible fruit due to different mindsets.