One more thing I want to add here from what @Stuckinthewoods shares with me. He pointed out that there's an entire book of the bible written about polygamous marriage. That's Song of Songs. It seems obvious in retrospect, but I can't believe no one ever talks about this. That book is often used as the example of how to love a wife.
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Greetings from the south!
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It was not discussed much in the New Testament because it was not in question....it was not disputed. Jesus didnt restate the command not to sexually abuse animals either, but no one questions if that law has changed.
As for the laws of the land? To go way back, YHWH never authorized even an Israelite king to create laws....ONLY MINISTER HIS.
He said twice in Deut. not to add or diminish from what was given. So any law that is not His has no authority. Finally, the Supreme Court has already ruled that 2 or more consenting adults can live together. The specifics of your relationship are between you and God.
I'd suggest you look again at what Frederick wrote. ...and maybe too look at a word study on hell. Translators did things to incorporate pagan ideas into the monotheistic faith of ancient Israel.
Except wife tries to run away from husband.
That's anything but normal marriage. I don't think this should be our example.
Back then most wives were impregnated during first year of marriage.
Yea, unlucky ones weren't single mothers.
Which verse are you referring to?
I have no idea what you're talking about in either of these comments.
Modern effective contraception didn't exist back then.
Marriage means sex which means babies (unlike today).
I need to check.
In Song of Songs Solomon is trying to marry Shulammite, while she longs for shepherd.
Who in Bible calls himself shepherd? Well, Lord Himself.
So point of book is loyalty to Lord and avoiding material rewards of world as represented as Solomon. Solomon is bad guy in book.
So, what is the history as to why or how this changed? Is that dating to the Greco-Roman influence? I am also curious of the sex=marriage argument. I sincerely appreciate you all welcoming me.
I would love to have some very thorough research. I have a very inquisitive mind so a simple blanket statement is not typically enough (ironic since my current belief is based on what I was taught growing up and didn’t take the time to further investigate)
And yes, it is a little more nuanced than that that I do not feel comfortable sharing for everyone (maybe on private DM) but yes as my discovery of the Bible, YHWH was consistent in widows and children being provided for. While I am not a widow, my child is not being provided for or cared for by his father in the way that he should be. I also desire provision and companionship to fulfill my purpose and ensuring my child can reach his potential and be led by a God-fearing man. Right now, I am healing from abusive relationships and seeking God’s will. I’m on a bit of an emotional roller coaster right now.
Fornication is a difficult word to understand. Many of us have struggled with it. Modernity has turned it into a catch all phrase to mean anything involving sex.
Some of us try to resolve the ambiguity by referring back to the actual manual on accepted sexuality (the Pentateuch). If it’s disallowed there, it falls under porneia.
As has been pointed out, Jesus didnt address sodomy or bestiality. He didn’t need to. It was understood to be forbidden in the Israelite circles he was ministering in. Jesus does address divorce and adultery, but under the guidance of what was already written.
Paul does address sexual taboos because his reach was beyond the Holy Land areas where pagans influenced the masses. You’ll be hard pressed to find any practices that Paul argues are forbidden that don’t align with the Pentateuch.
Silence in the NT isn’t really an argument because the NT isn’t meant to be a standalone entity. Without the prior writings, none of it makes an iota of sense.
I think your DMs probably aren't enabled yet, but feel free to reach out to me if you want to. My email is the same as my username here and it's at proton.me.
Yes! I remember seeing that somewhere in passing during my research - what I remember reading was it the wives welcoming a new wife maybe? I haven’t looked much into that as I’m mostly investigating Gods design and intention. It’s difficult since we already live in a fallen world!
Yes! The Greek word is πορνεία and it is defined biblically as any illicit sexual activity. What sets the bounds for appropriate sexual activity is the Word of God, and anything outside that is illicit; πορνεία. A man having sexual relations with his wife (no matter how many other wives he does or doesn't have) is never πορνεία; it can't be, because it doesn't violate any biblical instruction.
Indeed, and that is important to keep in mind as one studies the Bible. So much of the New Testament is built on the foundation of the Old Testament, and not seperate from it.
I believe that this is all about Solomon, not some rando shepherder.
Solomon is her beloved.
- Solomon is named in 1:5, 3:7–11, and 8:11–12.
- The king's chambers are mentioned in 1:4.
- The royal wedding procession in chapter 3 explicitly identifies Solomon.
Just because some claim that it is about a sheepherder, don't believe it. A man as a sheepherder is never introduced into the story.
I am open to opposing scriptural evidence....
I don’t know that they are - would there be anything I need to do on my end? I am still trying to even figure out how to navigate this platform! Ha! But I would also love to connect specifically with women as well to understand that journey.
I would be happy to provide some of my research! Do you have DMs available yet?
So, in this interpretation, does sex=marriage? What are examples of fornication or sexual immorality for a man or a woman that would be forbidden or is it strictly those acts in Leviticus?
I am clear in understanding that adultery is based on the marital status of the woman. That was also another affirmation was because multiple wives were never condemned at any point in the Torah.
Thank you all again! Even as I am asking these questions, things are becoming a much more simpler thought.
I don’t think so! Is there something I must do to enable DMs?
Also, I find the sex=marriage debate quite fascinating. Here is a great podcast from Rich Tidwell about it: