I'm going to resurrect this thread because it's been on my mind a lot lately. And I think the discussion has been great, sooo much good discussion and good points so far. I'm going to try to distill the essence of the problem and hopefully avoid talking past each other. Please ask me to clarify if you think I'm in the wrong. Talking past each other is extremely easy to do especially with the written word in these small text based formats.
Should my wife disobey my command when it violates her conscience or what she thinks is right or good?
Should my child do the same?
If they do, and they are right, they have obeyed God (assuming the command actually violated God's law) and avoided sinning against God. They however sinned against God by disobeying their head.
Headship and Authority means you obey no matter if you think or "feel like" the thing is wrong.
I'll give an example borrowed from Michael Pearl on obedience.
Driving down a road in a pickup with a battery behind the bench seat, the door doesn't work properly and has to be opened from the outside. The battery starts fizzling and the driver (the husband) slams on the brakes, and orders the kids OUT. They don't wait to have the door opened, they bail out headfirst through the window obeying instantly and without questioning whether or not the head was right or wrong, in God's will or not. They simply obeyed. As they should. I don't expect my sons to question when I tell them to do something. I expect immediate obedience, if they are confused as to the why, they have been told they are free to ask why, but the first response must be cheerful obedience without grumbling or a bad attitude. They can ask why when the obedience is carried out, or during the act of obeying. If I am unable or unwilling to give an explanation, they continue to finish the task and go on about their day WITHOUT grumbling or complaining or questioning further.
If this model is followed and I am wrong. I am to blame. I have done wrong. I will suffer the consequences. And I will assess, pray, get myself in alignment with God, HE will chastise or admonish me. And I will lead better next time.
The same with my wife. If I give her a command, she is to obey the same way because I am her head. She does not, scripturally speaking have the authority to question me. I can go against God and give her that authority but I would be sinning against God by usurping HIS authority and changing the order that HE has laid out. If I tell her to do or not do something, she doesn't check me against scripture. She obeys. If her obedience is predicated upon reflection and holding my motives and actions up to the light of Scripture, then she is not obeying, she is not in subjection, she is in rebellion. When the centurion came and asked for healing for his servant he understood authority. We should likewise understand authority and headship similarly.
7...
but say in a word, and my servant shall be healed.
8For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
If I change the order of things. The consequence is my wife, or my children will start second guessing. This is planting seeds of doubt, rebellion, and disobedience. They start saying "what do I think should be done based on what I think God says." this is emphatically NOT what God has laid out for us in scripture as the order he has set forth. It is not my place to usurp His authority and change that because it makes me feel better. Sure it would be easier to think I have a safety net in them checking the truth for me. But that's MY job to make sure that I am in obedience and walking uprightly. It's my job to look at the path we are walking and determine if I am leading correctly. I would be abandoning my orders from the Creator of all Heaven and Earth if I distributed that authority piecemeal out to my wife and children.
I am ultimately responsible, I do not have authority to delegate that responsibility.
If I allow the order to be subverted from God's set order, I allow a twisted order to creep in. You could say a perverted order. I must not abrogate the responsibilities I have been given or the long term consequences may equal disaster and eternal horror for my wife or children. This is extremely serious stuff brothers.
If I am in subjection to a Project Manager for an 80 million dollar project (true story) I don't get to delegate the authority and responsibility to someone else. The PM would look at me and in fact everyone would look at me like I had a donkey growing out of my ear if I said I should or could do that. I can delegate tasks to accomplish the goal and purpose of the PM, but the authority and responsibility is set by a higher power and I quite literally cannot change where the authority and responsibility lie. If I make the wrong call, I am fired, and there might also be bad consequences for the Foreman who obeyed those orders. But more likely than not, the Foreman is going to say I was following orders, and he will keep his job.
God expects my children and wife to obey and it will be counted as righteousness. That's a heavy and amazing thing. He does not say "Obey if you think it's right".
1Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
3Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
4But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
5For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
6Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
To me it seems that when I fulfill my duties, even if it's hard, or even if I'm uncomfortable with being pushed past what is easy. I should obey and shoulder that burden. It removes an undue pressure from my wife to shoulder a burden that isn't for her to bear. It absolves my children of a responsibility that isn't theirs. It makes their way straighter, and their path smoother. It's my job to remove those stones and push the logs off the path as we go. It's my burden. I would be remiss if I asked them to check me daily. This trains their minds to jump when the boss says to do something. They will get the job done quickly without grumbling and questioning, they will return to the boss to get another job when they're done. This kind of attitude and behavior is unheard of in the working world. Those kinds of people get quickly promoted to high positions of power because of faithfulness and diligence. This is one of the utmost goals of a husband and father.
With all this said. I still struggle with the question of justice and obedience to God over a very sinful man. What is a wife to do if her husband wants her to help him rape and molest their 8 year old daughter? I say she should grab the shotgun and blast him into last week. But that's just me.
I'm just a man trying to figure this all out. And the more I learn the more I realize I know nothing.
How's that for a fun twist at the end of an argument? HAH!
