As a conceptual idea, perhaps not, but when a woman falls for a man, she doesn't really care.
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Meat Concerning New Recruits - The Past Sins
- Thread starter crsivils
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Perhaps it is merely an admonition that we are to follow to flee fornication. This question is a tough one to deal with, as I have a son who has a girlfriend, and they have challenged us with this.
We’ll rise to the challenge. Find the sin of sex before marriage. Find the verses where it’s forbidden and what the penalties are. It should easy enough.
You know I would love to! The admonition itself, I would hope would be good enough.
@The Revolting Man
God's word said this virgin was married to her husband before they had sex. Are you disagreeing?
It says that she was betrothed to a man and should be considered his. A promise was made and should be kept.
If a betrothal equals marriage does that mean a betrothal can only be broken for the reasons of divorce? Or could the man and the woman's father mutually decide to end a betrothal?
This really is getting off track from the original topic of the thread.
Not without some moral authority behind it to back it up.
What solid scripture? Does betrothal equal marriage? All you’ve shown is that adultery can exist outside the one flesh state, further demonstrating that our current definition of adultery is inadequate. Coupled with Matthew 19:9 and 5:28 we now have three instances where adultery occurs without a prohibited one flesh occurring.Ya don't say
It does speak to one of the core questions though.
And it is fun to present solid scripture that defeats Zec's long standing argument.
But setting all that aside, you’re being disingenuous. My claim has never been that there was no way to commit adultery before sleeping with a woman. My claim has always been that sex always forms or breaks a one flesh union, that IF you have sex with a woman you are bound to each other in one flesh, that sex forms a marriage.
At best your claim is that something else can form a marriage too. While I remain skeptical that what we’re seeing in your (I’ll be generous) proof text is a marriage (remember that I categorically reject the term) even if you’re right your claim doesn’t effect mine.
If you have sex with a woman you are one flesh with her, 1 Corinthians 6:16 still being a verse no one wants to debate me on. You want to make an entire theology bout of this one verse but your theology has to reconcile every verse. You do not even attempt to incorporate all the verses surrounding the topic, you’re stuck on this one verse, that doesn’t even claim to be about so called marriage, it is explicitly about betrothal, says so right there in the verse.
So I’m not sure what you’ve defeated except possibly the rules of logic. Those you’ve trampled underfoot.
Good questions.
And yes, I’m disagreeing that it says she was married to her husband because it specifically says she was betrothed. Unless betrothal equals marriage your statement is nonsensical.
We were cautious and curious about the nature of the relationship my sisterwife had with her son's father. He called her his wife once yelling a threat to my husband (when he was just her employer)....but we saw no evidence that he was ever commited. Later he came down and gave us co-parenting document he had written and filed years ago. The document he wrote makes it plain he did not consider her his wife. He mentions a possibility of her becoming his wife if she did a good job of meeting her obligations outlined in the agreement..... ironically, he never kept any of his.
It became clear it didn't start as marriage, or become marriage.
The funny thing is they were talking about that document, and my husband expressed to her it would be nice to have a copy, then he came while they were gone and insisted we (my daughter and I) take a copy. He was trying to show us how terrible she was, but what I see is that we now have the nature of their relationship articulated in a document that he wrote and filed himself! So nice of him. Lol
That is better then a divorce imo.
Sadly a lot of women make the mistake of being with someone thinking that he's committing to her when he really isn't.
Someone I got to know in the past couple years had an ongoing relationship from high school into adulthood and then one day he up and moved away. She had enough years invested that she could have gotten a court to declare her as a common law wife but instead chose not to. It's just sad when this kind of thing happens and then everyone involved has to try to pick up the pieces and move on to maybe make something new.
No, this was exactly the direction I expected this thread to go in lol.
I'm not really sure there is a 'sin' of premarital sex since Paul said in 1 Cor 6:16
Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh.”
He is quite clearly stating that sex and the process of joining as one is a marriage. Like it or not.
(EDIT: This is also consistent with Islamic views on sex equaling marriage)
Consequently you could have sex before a legal marriage but so far as God is concerned you are married once you do the deed.
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Remember that Joseph was only betrothed to Mary and I believe that he was fixing to divorce her when the angel showed up.
Yes! You see @NickF , the very very smart and beautiful people are in agreement on this point!
I do not believe we can hold any condemnation for a woman who has committed sexual sins, prior to being born again.
1 Cor 6
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [b]homosexuals, nor [c]sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were [d]sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
You do not have to marry them, if they have sexual sins prior to being washed, but neither can you condemn them for those sins. They were forgiven and justified in the name of Jesus. They're gone.
If you still don't want to marry them, then don't. No one is forcing you to.
1 Cor 6
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [b]homosexuals, nor [c]sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were [d]sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
You do not have to marry them, if they have sexual sins prior to being washed, but neither can you condemn them for those sins. They were forgiven and justified in the name of Jesus. They're gone.
If you still don't want to marry them, then don't. No one is forcing you to.
And the same sentiments apply to those concerned with drugs, alcohol, lying, theft, or any other life dominating sin. Sin is sin and the wages of whatever sin it is, is death. There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit (Rom. 8:1).