General DIVORCE AND REMARRIAGE

[Joshua]

He is simply repeating what the Instruction already says. And, in the process, affirming other direct implications:

- the wife does not have authority to "put away" (and thus, not 'divorce', either!) her husband.

- She is not to leave (abandon) the marriage.

- Still, rebellion exists. Shaul/Paul acknowledges that.

- So, IF she leaves anyway - she STILL HAS A LIVING HUSBAND. She must not thus commit adultery.

- The husband (as we have discussed) MAY (for some* presumed 'unclean-ness') put away his wife, but should not.

What follows, logically, since he is not bound to having only one anyway: he may take another wife, particularly in her absence.

Thus follows what I consider on of three potential polygyny 'mandates' in Scripture. What if she returns?


Matthew 5:31-32 is not an "exception" for adultery in the sense generally taught by the twisters. It MUST BE UNDERSTOOD in the context of what He just said, as was DEMONSTRATING:

He was not changing "one yod or tiddle" of His Written Word.

So, if she committed adultery - she is already an adulterer, and (were he inclined, see Numbers 5 et al) deserving of death. He COULD 'put her away' without so much as the clothes on her back. Anything else is 'grace' on his part.

And Shaul does not always need to repeat things His Master already taught. Often what his letters accomplish is "midrash" (a Hebrew term describing discussion or elaboration, as a method of teaching).



----------------------------
* Note: I chose not to use 'nakedness' in this context, given confusion in English. Shouldn't it be OK for her to get naked for her husband? This thus must mean something a bit different...

I agree he doesn’t need to reteach everything of Jesus, getting frustrated hearing so many people I know attempting to assert that nothing before acts 2 (established church) in scripture applies today. Why not the law Jesus said would not pass away until the end? Why not the law Paul said we ESTABLISH? People trying to limit their Bible reading to fit their comfort.

 

[Joshua]

Something that is sexual in nature - but not adultery - is something that could be grounds for the certificate.

For other issues you can carry your execution stake (cross). Show patience as our Master was patient with us while we were still walking in lawlessness/darkness. Continue to be doers of the word, and not hearers only. Do as the Word commands and wash her clean with the Word. Pray for her. In the end - it's the Heavenly Father that changes hearts, and opens eyes.

Giving a certificate is a serious thing, and not to be taken lightly. I think it’s profitable for your wives to know that you have the authority - according to the Word - to issue a certificate. Just like we know that our Master - Yahushua - also has the authority to cast us out of his Kingdom as well.

Proverbs 19:14 NLT
Fathers can give their sons an inheritance of houses and wealth, but only the LORD can give an understanding wife.

Well I agree. But Jesus has promised to never cast us out, as his heart is not hard in the likeness of men.

 

[Joshua]

If the wife committed fornication - she (and the man she had sex with) both committed a deadly sin (adultery). That is the punishment for a wife that sleeps with another man. However, the man can send her out of his house (with or without the certificate). He bears zero guilt in either case.

Nowadays people don’t get punished for abomination and deadly sin.

 

[steve]

Actually husband and wife can create porn video and only show video to his other wife(s).

I don't see where private porn collection is forbidden. Argument can only be made that public porn is forbidden.

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Joshua]

What could possibly go wrong?

Many risks to that, imho it’s so obvious I will refrain from a list.

 

[FollowingHim]

Actually husband and wife can create porn video and only show video to his other wife(s).

I don't see where private porn collection is forbidden. Argument can only be made that public porn is forbidden.

In the 0.00000000001% chance that you ever meet someone with multiple wives who wants to make a porn video with one wife to show to the others, you can now say "I thought of it first".

 

[OttoM]

Nowadays people don’t get punished for abomination and deadly sin.

There’s scripture like “I desire mercy and not sacrifice.” “Vengeance is mine - I will repay.” Yahushua - “I have not come to condemn but to save.”

Sin is sin. But some sin is more serious than others, for example, the sins with a death penalty attached to them. But through the reedming blood of Yahushua there is forgiveness of sins and grace.

People that continue to fornicate - increase their chances of catching a std. People that continue to practice homosexuality end up with aids. There’s curses for dis obedience and they can lead to early death.

 

[OttoM]

Well I agree. But Jesus has promised to never cast us out, as his heart is not hard in the likeness of men.

Hebrews 10:26
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left.

2 Peter 20 NLT
And when people escape from the wickedness of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and then get tangled up and enslaved by sin again, they are worse off than before.

Philippians 2:12 KJV
Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Ezekiel 18:24 NLT
However, if righteous people turn from their righteous behavior and start doing sinful things and act like other sinners, should they be allowed to live? No, of course not! All their righteous acts will be forgotten, and they will die for their sins.

Romans 6:1-2 NLT
1 Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more of his wonderful grace? 2 Of course not! Since we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it?

The Scripture shows that the Messiah did not drink the cup of suffering - for our lawlessness - so that we can continue in lawlessness. What the doctrines of men teach - may be different. So study yourself and pray on it.

 

[MemeFan]

In the 0.00000000001% chance that you ever meet someone with multiple wives who wants to make a porn video with one wife to show to the others, you can now say "I thought of it first".

Cuckqueans are very adjacent to us.

From them I got this idea.

Also lady fine with filming:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1792640166697332863

 

[Joleneakamama]

In the 0.00000000001% chance that you ever meet someone with multiple wives who wants to make a porn video with one wife to show to the others, you can now say "I thought of it first".

I was going to comment on his suggestion....

I'll just say in this family it's eyes only. No photos exist.

 

[Joshua]

Hebrews 10:26
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left.

2 Peter 20 NLT
And when people escape from the wickedness of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and then get tangled up and enslaved by sin again, they are worse off than before.

Philippians 2:12 KJV
Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Ezekiel 18:24 NLT
However, if righteous people turn from their righteous behavior and start doing sinful things and act like other sinners, should they be allowed to live? No, of course not! All their righteous acts will be forgotten, and they will die for their sins.

Romans 6:1-2 NLT
1 Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more of his wonderful grace? 2 Of course not! Since we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it?

The Scripture shows that the Messiah did not drink the cup of suffering - for our lawlessness - so that we can continue in lawlessness. What the doctrines of men teach - may be different. So study yourself and pray on it.

I do tell you gently, do not quote scripture and assume it supports your interpretation without careful exegesis, ESPECIALLY using such a loosely translated version as the NLT that often changes the meaning. If you want to debate eternal security, I’m more than willing, and more than prepared. Let me know.

 

[Joshua]

There’s scripture like “I desire mercy and not sacrifice.” “Vengeance is mine - I will repay.” Yahushua - “I have not come to condemn but to save.”

Sin is sin. But some sin is much more serious than others - and the sins with a death penalty attached to them are obviously way more serious. But through the reedming blood of Yahushua there is forgiveness of sins and grace.

People that continue to fornicate - increase their chances of catching a std. People that continue to practice homosexuality end up with aids. There’s curses for dis obedience and they can lead to early death.

I agree, God in this age is very gracious and encourages us to be. But that doesn’t mean absolutely punishment is expected or even warranted by God. Exhortation must turn into rebuke, rebuke must turn into discipline, discipline must turn into wrath, lest we all live like the devil.

 

[JudahYAHites]

Now, it is essential for us to understand that marriage is a contract,

Nope, biblical marriage is a covenant relationship, there is a distinct difference between a contract and a covenant. Not understanding the difference exposes the fact that you have not yet grasped the fundamentals of biblical marriage.
I couldn't force myself to read beyond your opening statement


I am inclined to agree with @steve

I appreciate your efforts to communicate what you believe, but I don’t think that it is going to get read. I certainly have no plans to.

We are more of a discussion platform than a place to publish research papers.

I hope you read through the rest of the discussion there are valuable nuggets of truth that will help you in your understanding.

 

[Joshua]

I was going to mention the Geneva bible but @Mark C beat me to it! However, you could do a lot worse than sticking with the KJV, much as there are many details of it that can be critiqued every translation has details that can be critiqued, and the list of critiques to throw at the KJV is simply shorter than most other translations. So it's a good default. And there are so many bible study tools available for it following centuries of use that it's an excellent starting point for studying the Hebrew and Greek also - Strongs is keyed to the KJV. The Geneva's better but less available. Just keep doing what you're doing.

Regarding 'ervah, it means nakedness, and according to the concordance specifically of the pubic region. So it means the husband must have found some sort of sexual "uncleaness" with his wife to divorce her. In other words, she has to have done something to deserve it. That can be interpreted somewhat broadly since it's rather vague, but only broadly within the context of sexual stuff. She can't be divorced for burning the toast. She can obviously be divorced for adultery. She can also be divorced for lesser sexual faults: doing a stripshow at her work christmas party, persistent refusal to have sex with her husband, use your imagination. But it's still a narrow set of reasons.

And even in most of these cases it would be more consistent with Jesus' teachings to forgive her and not divorce her, at least if she was repentant.

2 questions, why is refusal of the wife to have sex “uncleanness”, and what sin would you say goes along with the work stripshow (with scriptures) I’m still studying

 

[Joshua]

Very risky, it is putting her in a position that makes adultery more likely. I'm not saying there is never a case for it but I can't think of a good one at present.

A wise manager / boss knows what is appropriate in individual circumstances. Same for a husband.

Whether I would consider it unclean is irrelevant. The question is whether her husband does. He's her head, and what is unclean for her is defined by his perception.

It's a stupid idea, don't do it. What technical sin it involves could be debated at length, but doesn't change the advice not to do it.

On the other hand, our society deals with this poorly, by blaming a man for being dirty and evil rather than considering the reasons WHY he is looking at porn. A man who is unsatisfied sexually by his wife, but loves her and values his marriage, may seek out that satisfaction in ways that he feels are least risky to the marriage and woman he loves. What his body wants is sex with another woman, but what he redirects this to instead is porn, which is less harmful than if he started having affairs. In this case, porn is a symptom of the fact that he actually loves his wife. When discovered, she is likely to react as if it is a betrayal, when in fact it is quite the opposite. She'll be told he's filthy and she needs to stay away from him until he can fix his dirty habit, while in reality the solution is for her to satisfy him so he does not seek porn in the first place.

The solution for a porn-watching husband is for his wife to turn up naked and take over.

Confused on why you think the husband who “thinks his wife is unclean” has the same lawful divorce grounds as a man who actually “finds uncleanness” in her, shouldn’t we attempt to define this?

 

[Joshua]

Something that is sexual in nature - but not adultery - is something that could be grounds for the certificate.

For other issues you can carry your execution stake (cross). Show patience as our Master was patient with us while we were still walking in lawlessness/darkness. Continue to be doers of the word, and not hearers only. Do as the Word commands and wash her clean with the Word. Pray for her. In the end - it's the Heavenly Father that changes hearts, and opens eyes.

Giving a certificate is a serious thing, and not to be taken lightly. I think it’s profitable for your wives to know that you have the authority - according to the Word - to issue a certificate. Just like we know that our Master - Yahushua - also has the authority to cast us out of his Kingdom as well.

Proverbs 19:14 NLT
Fathers can give their sons an inheritance of houses and wealth, but only the LORD can give an understanding wife.

What things “sexual in nature, but not adultery”

 

[Joshua]

My opinion is that the man is to be logical and deliberate about something as serious as his wife. He is to let his yes be yes and his no be no. Human nature for some includes husband sanctioned adultery. They call it swinging, but by prohibiting a man from taking back a wife after he divorced her....and she moved on to a new partner, YHWH made it impossible for a man to "lawfully" partner swap.



The Greek word translated fornication there is pornia and would include men who's "women" were from nations they were forbidden to intermarry with, and it would also cover other forbidden unions like incest or marrying a wife's mother or daughter (death penalty there for all)

In such cases the union was NOT MARRIAGE.... it was SIN. So in the case of a union that was PORNIA no certificate of divorce was required....just PUT HER AWAY (stop sinning) see the example in the book of Ezra.

Are you saying that because Israelites were commanded NOT to marry these women, that they couldn’t disobey? Where do you get the idea that these marriages weren’t real? Do we know if the people in Ezra gave divorce certificates or not?

 

[Joshua]

He is simply repeating what the Instruction already says. And, in the process, affirming other direct implications:

- the wife does not have authority to "put away" (and thus, not 'divorce', either!) her husband.

- She is not to leave (abandon) the marriage.

- Still, rebellion exists. Shaul/Paul acknowledges that.

- So, IF she leaves anyway - she STILL HAS A LIVING HUSBAND. She must not thus commit adultery.

- The husband (as we have discussed) MAY (for some* presumed 'unclean-ness') put away his wife, but should not.

What follows, logically, since he is not bound to having only one anyway: he may take another wife, particularly in her absence.

Thus follows what I consider on of three potential polygyny 'mandates' in Scripture. What if she returns?


Matthew 5:31-32 is not an "exception" for adultery in the sense generally taught by the twisters. It MUST BE UNDERSTOOD in the context of what He just said, as was DEMONSTRATING:

He was not changing "one yod or tiddle" of His Written Word.

So, if she committed adultery - she is already an adulterer, and (were he inclined, see Numbers 5 et al) deserving of death. He COULD 'put her away' without so much as the clothes on her back. Anything else is 'grace' on his part.

And Shaul does not always need to repeat things His Master already taught. Often what his letters accomplish is "midrash" (a Hebrew term describing discussion or elaboration, as a method of teaching).



----------------------------
* Note: I chose not to use 'nakedness' in this context, given confusion in English. Shouldn't it be OK for her to get naked for her husband? This thus must mean something a bit different...

What is the scriptural argument for never divorcing a wife? Didn’t God divorce Israel? Was that “hard hearted”?

 

[Joleneakamama]

Are you saying that because Israelites were commanded NOT to marry these women, that they couldn’t disobey? Where do you get the idea that these marriages weren’t real? Do we know if the people in Ezra gave divorce certificates or not?

I gave my opinion. I said to look at the story in Ezra. Form your own opinion.

 

[OttoM]

What things “sexual in nature, but not adultery”

It depends on the individual husband and his own interpretation of sexual uncleanness. The wife should know his rules - since he’s the head. If she continues to rebel against her husband’s rules - and it’s something sexual in nature - then you’ve got a problem.