Meat Mystery behind 1 Corinthians 7:36-37 (virgin, daughter, betrothed or what?)

[PilgrimJustPassingThru]

So he sinned? He kind of judaízed? He’s a hypocrite? He did that which was righteous? You do realize that prophecies of the coming kingdom include…temple sacrifice.

Likely not just Jewish converts but at least you concede that point.


All days are holy. Agreed. God made all days. How many other of the 10 are now optional?


Nor negative. As you say, it’s mostly silent.

So that means you were indoctrinated into your denomination’s belief system?


What was the goal of a judaizer? I believe Peter and Paul adopted Jesus’ view of the matter. It’s what’s inside, not outside that accounts for righteousness. Abraham and Moses had to believe God first. The judaizares put the cart before the horse. They were expecting full obedience without necessarily inspecting for inward conversion.

True. Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.


Brother, I am not a judaizer. I’m not even what one would consider a “Torah” guy. I’ve just become more pronomian over the years because it takes the guessing out of the faith. The mere fact that you have to question in another post about whether polygyny “could” be fornication means that you are putting yourself in much too high of a spiritual position. You wrestle with things that need not be so difficult. Gods law provides the template for accepted sexual practices. Anywhere inside that is permissible. Don’t strain at gnats.

1. He tried to become all things to all men that he might save some. Same reason he said circumcision is nothing and then circumcised Timothy.

2. Christ restated the other nine. Whatcha think? Let’s talk about the newness of the New Covenant. Let’s speak plainly about Melchizedek. Let’s study the books specifically written to the Jewish folks such as the Book of Hebrews and James.

3. ‘Tis mostly silent with respect to the lawfulness of polygyny, yes. ‘Tis not at all silent with regard to it being inexpedient, suboptimal, not ideal, a deviation from the Edenic blueprint, etc. Again, I’m going to keep hammering this, the fact that you all see the day approaching and point to all these prophecies and yet can’t bring yourself to find or start a church is bizarre. It’s without any biblical basis or warrant. It looks nothing like the early church.

4. There were always interpretive camps. But no, I was not indoctrinated into any particular system. You don’t know me, although you’re welcome to get to know me. So let’s be men here and stop pretending you do.

5. I don’t believe I’m straining at gnats at all. You’ve got folks here building harems in their homestead, promoting bisexuality in defiled marital beds and calling it kosher. It’s not and it’s never going to be.

As surely as a man can get drunk off of his own grapes or be a glutton with his own food, a man can be sexually immoral with his wife in his own home.

We’re called to serve the Living God, not the god of our bellies. We’re called to present our bodies as living sacrifces.

We simply don’t see polygynous Gentiles in the New Testament church and that needs to be said again and again.

Loudly.

 

[Mojo]

1. He tried to become all things to all men that he might save some. Same reason he said circumcision is nothing and then circumcised Timothy.

Was it sinful? Forbidden? Permissible?

2. Christ restated the other nine. Whatcha think?

He didn’t restate bestiality. Must something be restated to be followed?

Let’s talk about the newness of the New Covenant.

Let’s. What is it?

Let’s speak plainly about Melchizedek.

He’s nothing new. Why do you revert to that Old Testament figure for your faith? Jesus didnt restate him.

Let’s study the books specifically written to the Jewish folks such as the Book of Hebrews and James.

So they don’t apply to you? Are you like Luther? Do you advocate their removal?

3. ‘Tis mostly silent with respect to the lawfulness of polygyny, yes. ‘

It’s silent on bestiality and incest. How do we know they’re unlawful??????

Tis not at all silent with regard to it being inexpedient, suboptimal, not ideal, a deviation from the Edenic blueprint, etc.

Go nudist and vegan. Follow the entire ideal, not just partial.

Again, I’m going to keep hammering this, the fact that you all see the day approaching and point to all these prophecies and yet can’t bring yourself to find or start a church is bizarre. It’s without any biblical basis or warrant. It looks nothing like the early church.

And not much of what exists today looks like the early church either.

4. There were always interpretive camps. But no, I was not indoctrinated into any particular system.

If you graduated a seminary, you had to follow their prescribed class lists. You were indoctrinated. I’m not saying it as a pejorative. It’s just fact.

We’re called to serve the Living God, not the god of our bellies. We’re called to present our bodies as living sacrifces.

We simply don’t see polygynous Gentiles in the New Testament church and that needs to be said again and again.

Loudly.

Saying it louder in no way makes it any more relevant. When you have the law on your side, pound the law, when you don’t have the law on your side, pound the table…loudly.

 

[Mojo]

If the facts are on your side, pound the facts into the table. If the law is on your side, pound the law into the table. If neither the facts nor the law are on your side, pound the table…loudly, or this case…laugh.

*note that law is lowercase. It’s in reference to civil, not divine law. Famous quote from law schools.

 

[Joleneakamama]

We simply don’t see polygynous Gentiles in the New Testament church and that needs to be said again and again.

You may find a word study on "Gentile" interesting.

 

[frederick]

We simply don’t see polygynous Gentiles in the New Testament church and that needs to be said again and again.

We see marriage throughout Holy Scripture, divinely instituted and governed. In the Bible we see examples of marriages involving one man with one, two, three, or more women, and God didn't set any limits. Marriage is marriage whether it's in the Old Testament or the New, so God has told us what we need to know to fulfil His purposes in marriage. Maybe you want to do things differently and have different rules, but He's given us everything we need to know and you should keep that in mind. Cheers

 

[PilgrimJustPassingThru]

We see marriage throughout Holy Scripture, divinely instituted and governed. In the Bible we see examples of marriages involving one man with one, two, three, or more women, and God didn't set any limits. Marriage is marriage whether it's in the Old Testament or the New, so God has told us what we need to know to fulfil His purposes in marriage. Maybe you want to do things differently and have different rules, but He's given us everything we need to know and you should keep that in mind. Cheers

Find more opportunities to meditate and reflect on expedience and self-denial in accordance with the example of Christ and the Holy Scriptures, especially the New Testament. That’s the most edifying thing I can respond with at this point.

Grace and peace.

 

[PilgrimJustPassingThru]

If the facts are on your side, pound the facts into the table. If the law is on your side, pound the law into the table. If neither the facts nor the law are on your side, pound the table…loudly, or this case…laugh.

*note that law is lowercase. It’s in reference to civil, not divine law. Famous quote from law schools.

The facts and the law are certainly on my side. My Lawgiver is Christ, not Moses. It is a Melchizedekian Priesthood, not Levitical.

As for the facts, we see no Gentiles practicing polygyny in the Holy Scriptures, we see no positive endorsements of it, we see no orthodox Christian sects practicing it, and we see in this very forum that the practice tends to attract people who are “koo-koo for Cocoa Puffs.”

Now while I admit that polygyny may be lawful, we have to call it what it is: an unendorsed argument from silence that by virtue of its practice may prevent us from obeying that which is positively commanded (such as not forsaking the assembling of saints).

It’s true that legal civil marriages were concerned mostly with inheritance in the Greco-Roman sphere. That’s not very different from our modern American concerns. Yet you see no Christian writers speak well of having concubines simultaneously to having wives.

There was a change in the priesthood.

There has been a change in the Lawz

This is evidenced by just how little of the 613 Mitzvot can be practiced after AD 70. I don’t find the deep revisions Rabbinic Judaism has had to make in the interest of having a religion to continue to practice either. Non-Messianic Judaism is dead.

That’s my position. May He be gracious and merciful toward those who don’t hold it; nevertheless, may He accomplish all His purpose, for truly some vessels were made unto wrath. I hope it goes well for you on the Last Day.

 

[frederick]

Find more opportunities to meditate and reflect on expedience and self-denial in accordance with the example of Christ and the Holy Scriptures, especially the New Testament. That’s the most edifying thing I can respond with at this point.

Grace and peace.

I'm wondering, would you side with the ruler of the synagogue (cf. Luke 13:14) and suggest Jesus shouldn't have healed on the Sabbath as it upset so many religious people? Just wondering... . Cheers

 

[PilgrimJustPassingThru]

I'm wondering, would you side with the ruler of the synagogue (cf. Luke 13:14) and suggest Jesus shouldn't have healed on the Sabbath as it upset so many religious people? Just wondering... . Cheers

No.

 

[steve]

1 John 2:19 means something..

Of course, but who gets to decide what it means?
There is no group of people today who can legitimately claim that they have the same exact knowledge and understanding that “us” did in that verse.
We are re-digging the old wells and endeavoring to understand what was originally taught and understood. I commend your zeal to get it right, but I decry your judgementalness and condemnation of people who aren’t in the place where you are. (If you continue to grow, you won’t be in the same place, yourself, in ten years.)

 

[MemeFan]

It’s about accountability, not merely socializing. You know that. I know that. We don’t have to keep pretending. You’re content to walk out your faith in a way that no person in the Holy Scriptures given to us as an example ever has, and I don’t think it’s going to end well for you or anyone else who decides for live out their faith like you do.

So people must be under "eye of Sauron" to keep marriage succesful.

What are really recommending is even more people meddling into mariage. And what are incentives of those meddlers? Will anyone of them suffer anything important if their advice causes marriage to fall? Nope.

So, position of "elders" whom rest are supposed to be accountable will become playground for pscyhopaths.

Are you working for some three letter agency in Washington?

Some homesteaders are having fun alone with their family without permits, licences and approval of pastors/elders. Go back to matrix in your message.

We know we’ve passed from death to life because of the love of the brethren. The world will know we are his disciples by our love for one another. We also have a picture in Scripture of what hatred is biblically (speaking neither good nor bad to someone).

Wait, if I don't comment on someone it must be that I hate him. I didn't know I must be hating all Africans because I never speak of them.

That’s essentially what many of the hurt homesteaders here have done. They’re done with church, they’re done with the visible body of Christ by and large, and I genuinely believe that’s going to prove to be spiritually disastrous for you and many other people who go down those intentionally lonely paths.

So homesteaders should go back to be more hurt by church? Are you sadist?

The Christian life is lonely enough as it is. Withdrawing from true brethren just because things get hard is unwarranted.

What true brethen? True brethen wouldn't persecute more curious of Lord and Scripture.

Frankly speaking, I hope nobody hear listens to any of your advice. It's way beyond unwise and entering moronic territory.

 

[MemeFan]

I'm wondering, would you side with the ruler of the synagogue (cf. Luke 13:14) and suggest Jesus shouldn't have healed on the Sabbath as it upset so many religious people? Just wondering... . Cheers

Any answer to this question is generally.....untrue.

Now it's easy to proclaim I have be fighter against Nazis. Yea. What people discount is that real situation faces Gestapo, financial issues (state official can visit your employer), social dissaproval (many who agree with you will publically shame you to keep their job) etc....

Basically, we non right answer. But then, is Jesus real Messiah? Will he start liberation war against Romans? Will I be thrown away from synagogue? How will rest of society react? These are real question with real consequences which we won't be facing.

 

[PilgrimJustPassingThru]

Of course, but who gets to decide what it means?
There is no group of people today who can legitimately claim that they have the same exact knowledge and understanding that “us” did in that verse.
We are re-digging the old wells and endeavoring to understand what was originally taught and understood. I commend your zeal to get it right, but I decry your judgementalness and condemnation of people who aren’t in the place where you are. (If you continue to grow, you won’t be in the same place, yourself, in ten years.)

When we consider that the God of all space and time inspired, preserved, made inerrant and all sufficient what we are now discussing today, these things are not so difficult to determine.

Those who stand apart from any visible part of the Body of Christ and yet say they know Him ought to be viewed with great suspicion.

May my words to you be pleasing in His sight.

 

[Mojo]

Those who stand apart from any visible part of the Body of Christ and yet say they know Him ought to be viewed with great suspicion.

So said the papists before during the Inquistion, and to Luther. Or what the Calvinists said to the unaligned Brethren and Ansbaptists before drowning them.

The facts and the law are certainly on my side.

Brother, you have a similar MO to a group of posters on your complete opposite side of theology. Over the years, we’ve had posters use almost verbatim what you’re saying, except insert “follow Torah” instead of “Law of Christ”. It’s quite comical, actually. They have such certainty that this site contained Lawless heretics who must see things there way did or be judged in infamy before God. They hoot, holler, and beat the table because of the unlearned and unrepentant.

The problem is that this site only requires that we deal in good faith and respect while claiming nothing is certain beyond the Apostles Creed. That creed has been essentially our only baseline. And even that, some disagree, but manage to be respectful and peaceful.

There’s a famous saying: “In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity.”

My brother, you need to practice more charity. From all your seminary training and courses, that’s what you forgot to matriculate.

You’ve got a lot to add to this ministry and forum but as of now, all we hear is clanging cymbals, not charity.

 

[PilgrimJustPassingThru]

So said the papists before during the Inquistion, and to Luther. Or what the Calvinists said to the unaligned Brethren and Ansbaptists before drowning them.

The groups you mention here sought to congregate with likeminded believers in a way that promoted accountability and aligned with the biblical concept of a church. That’s very different from the antisocial arrangements many men are proposing here.

As for your reference to clanging cymbals, not all who have ears hear what the Spirit is saying (ref. John 12:29). Yet He who made the ear is able to make hear whom He chooses.

I encourage you to look for love in the tenor if you can’t find it in the tone.

 

[steve]

The groups you mention here sought to congregate with likeminded believers in a way that promoted accountability and aligned with the biblical concept of a church. That’s very different from the antisocial arrangements many men are proposing here.

Just consider each of us missionaries in our own local communities.
Missionaries go out, they don’t stay cloistered.

 

[PilgrimJustPassingThru]

Just consider each of us missionaries in our own local communities.
Missionaries go out, they don’t stay cloistered.

Missionaries of what? The gospel of polygyny? What nonsense, Sir. Missionaries are commissioned and sent. Missionaries are trained and accountable to a body of believers. Missionaries plant churches.

 

[Joleneakamama]

The groups you mention here sought to congregate with likeminded believers in a way that promoted accountability and aligned with the biblical concept of a church.

The word "Church" as I recall is a very poor translation of Ekklesia. The real ekklesia are the "called out ones.' We are not in harmony with the part of the body that basically developed an autoimmune disease and turned against the parts of the body that were polygynous or polygyny supporters. We are not the ones that have fulfilled the prophesy in 1 Tim 4:1 which identifies a departure some would make from the faith.

That’s very different from the antisocial arrangements many men are proposing here.

We are not antisocial. Most here are not. We enjoy meeting and visiting with many believers. It is the churchgoers that reject us.
Christians that "go to church" basically put all people in one of three catagories.
1. Fellow saved by grace members of the body. This is where fellowship happens.
2. People to evangelize to the "right" way of thinking. These treat you like a project....and it isn't true fellowship if their goal in associating is to change your beliefs.
3. The heretic catagory. This is where they put you after their attempts to evangelize you to their theology didn't work.

We have had the local elders and probably the pastor too (I doubt he ever corrected the "elder" that warned him away from us) warn many people who have come into this community away from our family.....and this without any attempt to confront my husband about his alleged "sin" or show him from the scriptures where he is wrong. One older man talked to him once, could not explain the biblical conflicts with his view, and never came back. It's been 4 years.

Why would we go where others will try to teach our children contrary to our beliefs?

Those who stand apart from any visible part of the Body of Christ and yet say they know Him ought to be viewed with great suspicion.

The part of the body you call visible? That is kind of like claiming that those called Jews are who represents the Israel of God. He says it is the seed of Jacob/Israel who will not cease from being a nation before Him forever. HE KNOWS HIS OWN! The gathering of the people is to Christ...according to Jacob/Israel's prophesy over Judah.
Jesus also said wherever 2 or 3 are gathered together in His name He is there in their midst.

One final thing. This ministry is not a church. It is international! There is no way that it can "police" people in all states and in other countries too. This website does allow us to meet other believers who will not break fellowship over polygyny. Some will be more alligned with other aspects of faith, some less so. I have always enjoyed the off topic discussions in this cross denominational group of believers.

 

[Mojo]

The groups you mention here sought to congregate with likeminded believers in a way that promoted accountability and aligned with the biblical concept of a church.

The church is people, not organizations or buildings.

The groups I mentioned operated outside of the “accepted” accountability of the institutions that claimed to protect and uphold “true” Christianity.

You’re arguing as a Papist or Mohammedan would. You are certain that there is no other way but yours and throw stones and condemn, rather than counsel others to your viewpoint. Yours is a conversion by verbal sword.

While you lump me in with the heretics, you should note that I attended a physical building with physical people and a leadership structure that doesn’t open up a Torah scroll. It’s how I choose to worship every week.

But, I’m able to fellowship freely with others on this site and at retreats who differ in the way they live out their faith. I have a curiosity to learn how others think, even if I ultimately disagree. Like you, I sometimes wonder if they have genuine faith. I sometimes even wonder if I have been living by the true faith…Lord help mine unbelief!

I’m done going back and forth with you. You need an attitude adjustment. Post your thoughts thoughtfully, rebut thoughtfully, and be respectful. This isn’t some teenage online rage club. Be mature and interact in a mature manner. People will, or already have, grown tired of the bomb throwing and self proclaimed authority with condescension. Use your knowledge with discernment.

 

[steve]

In reality, very few of us abandoned whatever assemblies that we were attending .
We were given the left foot of fellowship because of what we believe.

So your arrogant judgment of us is unjustified.