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OK so I am having a discussion with someone about polygyny. I used Exodus 21:10 to show that God told men how to care for more than one wife, and I made them point that God can't instruct men how to sin. He then brings up the point that earlier in this chapter, God tells how men are to treat slaves, and therefore by my logic, slavery must not be sin either since God commanded men how to care for slaves.
Slavery then was not the same as the slavery of the last several centuries.
An example would have been Joseph who became a trusted member of Potiphar’s household and business dealings (later second in command of the country). And that was in the Egyptian culture.
The biggest difference was that there were no jails or prisons in the Hebrew culture, that came about later. People were stoned for some sins and fined for others. If they couldn’t pay the fine, they were sold as servants/slaves to settle their bills.
Slaves taken from enemies in battle were treated well.
If I remember correctly, Paul told a runaway slave who converted to return to his master.
Are the people who are in prison today not slaves?
Their time, food, contact with family and location are all strictly controlled, the only difference being that labor is not required of them. In fact, the conditions are stricter than for slaves.
There is a difference between slavery (aka "cruel bondage") as is practiced in pagan nations (ie. Egypt) and Hebrew bondservice. The rules for the latter are described in detail in His Instruction.
Shaul/Paul and many others self-described as 'bondservants to the Most High.'
My understanding was that slavery biblically for Israelites was more like endentured servitude...or on the job training. It was voluntary, and a runaway slave in the old days was NOT to be returned. After 6 years they went out on the 7th with what they needed to go it on their own.
Slaves from battle were another story, but there were still conditions and requirements. For example, no women were raped. If a man took a war bride he had to let her mourn for a month before he was permitted to take her to wife.
Slavery and the taking of another wife can be done sinfully, violating God's laws, or righteously, staying within His instruction....same as the rest of life.
OK so I am having a discussion with someone about polygyny. I used Exodus 21:10 to show that God told men how to care for more than one wife, and I made them point that God can't instruct men how to sin. He then brings up the point that earlier in this chapter, God tells how men are to treat slaves, and therefore by my logic, slavery must not be sin either since God commanded men how to care for slaves.
Ok so what I’m hearing is that my basic retort should be 1. We’re slaves to Christ, therefore slavery isn’t wrong, and 2. Slaves were treated much better then, and 3. Slavery then was more like a servant, usually to pay off a debt.
Slavery like many terms in the Bible has a different meaning to that culture than it does today. This is where people get confused and upset because they try to fit the Bible into todays world view instead of the World view in which it was written.
This is a difficult issue to discuss with someone who is already emotionally loaded against you. It is however a simple issue to discuss calmly and rationally. Don't try and argue it too hard if they're not receptive.
The accurate answer is as people have explained above - "slavery" does not mean the caricature of chains and whips and cotton-picking negros that people tend to imagine when they hear the word. A slave is a worker who is fixed in his employment for a period of time. It's a very broad word that includes a whole range of situations, from extremely wealthy and influential people who were in fixed employment to a monarch (e.g. the Ethiopian eunuch of the New Testament would have been a slave), to criminals serving time, and everything in between. In ancient societies money just wasn't used much, so people weren't typically paid a salary, rather they would be permanently attached to a tribe as a "slave" and be paid directly in food, clothing etc rather than being paid cash which they then had to use to buy those things from a non-existent shop. The word describes a form of employment. And it really doesn't differ much at all from todays modern wage-slaves, who happen to be paid in money but are still bound to their employment out of economic necessity.
It certainly is not forbidden to have that sort of employment arrangement. What is forbidden is abuse of people. So everything the person arguing against you is picturing as the evils of slavery ARE actually forbidden (either directly in scripture, or obviously against the will of God when we consider it logically).
So the form of slavery the person is imagining is likely forbidden. Yet "slavery" as a far broader employment concept is not, and is still widely practiced today. The person arguing with you might even be something like a slave themselves.
The accurate answer is as people have explained above - "slavery" does not mean the caricature of chains and whips and cotton-picking negros that people tend to imagine when they hear the word.
Right, because biblically it was a crime (capital I believe) to steal a man and sell him.
So old testament slavery was more like work and education opportunities entered into voluntary inside Hebrew culture.
Slaves as spoil of war were often integrated into the culture by marriage.
Those YHWH blessed and prospered with good skills (good animal husbandry or farmers) had the ability to support others. This is why Abraham had a large household....with very few children.
OT slavery was really just work for an advance payment. Today, if you fall into debt, you have to spend years gradually clawing your way out of it and paying interest all the time. In the OT, you could instead approach someone more wealthy and say "I'll work for you for X number of years (negotiable but no more than 7) if you'll pay off my debt today". Strike a bargain, rich dude pays off your debt in full, no more financial worries. Then work for him for the next 5 years or whatever you agreed, all the while he's providing you with a house, food, clothing etc, and at the end of that you go free with no debt any more. While you're also free to decide you are actually quite happy with your life as it is and decide not to leave. Frankly, there are millions of people today who would jump at that deal if it were available.
Peter wrote, Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh. For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully. (1 Peter 2:18-19). We can therefore conclude not all servants had good masters, but all are called to serve honestly and faithfully. There are good and bad bosses today, and we are called to be just as honest and faithful. Being in service to someone isn't a sin, never was.
There were servants who had been purchased to work for a period of time, but chose to stay working for a good master for the rest of their lives. The master would pierce their ear to signify the decision.
OT slavery was really just work for an advance payment. Today, if you fall into debt, you have to spend years gradually clawing your way out of it and paying interest all the time.
Why does the Bible allow slavery? At first glance this seems an irredeemable blemish to the goodness of the Bible’s message. Slavery is correctly recognized as one of the great evils of our nation’s history. To many, this provides a significant reason for rejecting what the Bible teaches. Some...
Although God liberated the Hebrews from slavery in Egypt, slavery is not universally prohibited in the Bible. Slavery was permissible in certain situations, so long as slaves were regarded as full members of the community (Gen. 17:12), received the same
) 20% to their slavemaster, Pharaoh.
