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If I was in such situation, I would pray. Obviously you have some men who dont follow God, and they are not following God. It is always best to seek wise counsel when going through such tuff situations. I know that God will intervene in such situation if the women is of God, God will protect his children, in such situations seperation may be necessary of course, because of safety for children. There is nothing wrong with getting away from such vile matters.

How does this got anything to do with obedience, all these matters mentioned got everything to do with protecting your family.
 
Forgive me for simply giving my personal opinion, without biblical references to support the argument. If anyone could help me out on that side, I would certainly appreciate it.
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Is there any biblical reference to this, if there is then it would be biblical, we shouldn't back up stuff without scripture.
 
I suspect it is possible that because of some mental defect the man in question told his wife that he was under devine protection to keep his "bloodline" pure. I am sure that the voice of the devil himself can sound as sweet as angel music to bring people to do his bidding.

Would not submitting to your husband, regardless, require obidience? How then could she submit and also leave with her children?

All I am asking is that if a Godly marriage is the joining of two people, including their brains, and the man loses his, shouldn't the wife be of some assistance in helping him find his way. Or does blind submission override her inate good sense? Including following him into sin? Even when she knows it is sin?

Pat
 
I dont want to speak opinions but this is just what I believe from experience that a women should not follow her husbands sin,if he was to go and get drunk, or do drugs, or kill, or fornicate. She should not do the same. You have some men who may be sinners/sinning and commit sins in the marriage. The women should not follow her husband's sinful acts, she should pray for her husband fervently and stay focused. NKJV 1Timothy 5:22 Do not lay hands on anyone hastily, nor share in other people's sins; keep yourself pure. She should always follow what the word says, in these matters. Not saying if he told her to do something such as a matter concerning her obedience that she should go against it, and disobey, But all I'm saying is she shouldn't go and do the same things her husband is doing, like if went to kill himself, she shouldn't do the same, or if he stole something she shouldn't go and steal also. Now SHE SHOULDN'T TRY TO TELL HIM HE IS WRONG EITHER, OR CORRECT HIM 1Timothy 2:12-14 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach , nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed , then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived , but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Now men of God who are following God strong, I don't believe the women will face these issues, she should trust the God in him fully, and if he is in sin, and she know-ling see's it, whether he curses, lies, cheats, steals, ect, she should just pray for him and not do the same things.
Jesus never denied the Father, people may come to points in there life where they may have to die for Christ, we should never back down from following Christ, and I believe we should never back down from obeying our husbands, that's love and trust.

King James 1 Timothy 5:22 Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure.
NKJV 1Timothy 5:22 Do not lay hands on anyone hastily, nor share in other people's sins; keep yourself pure.

1Timothy 2:12-14 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach , nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed , then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived , but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
 
Would not submitting to your husband, regardless, require obidience? How then could she submit and also leave with her children?
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There is nothing wrong with seperating, for certain matters but divorce is not okay not unless commiting adultry arises on the women's behalf. Adultry is women who breaks wedlock, by breaking convenant and having sex with someone else.
1 Cor. 7:1 1 King James But and if she depart , let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
 
Ephesians 5:22 answers the submission question quite succinctly:

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

We are to submit to our husbands as we submit to the Lord. The Law of God does hold women accountable for their own sins. The husband does not bear all of her sin, even though he may bear part of it, especially if he knows about the sin and refuses to correct her.

We are made in the image of God, we are saved through our own faith in Christ Jesus. To say that a husband can bear our sins would also say that he can forgive our sins. It just isn't so, in fact, it is blasphemy.
 
A very important part of submission that may be misunderstood is that when an authority demands disobedience to God's Word, the person submitting can still be submissive even when refusing to obey.

Christ, our ultimate, perfect example, submitted to all earthly authority, including the High Priest Caiaphas and Pontius Pilate, who demanded answers from Him regarding who He was. Christ didn't answer, but still submitted to the punishment they gave.

When we were excommunicated from our church, we had a choice; repent of the sin of polygamy or be excommunicated. We couldn't repent of this, because it isn't a sin, so we chose to submit to excommunication. The authority of the church is just as valid as the authority of the husband. Both must be submitted to, but if asked to sin, both must be submissively refused.

Katie
 
So la says
To say that a husband can bear our sins would also say that he can forgive our sins
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Did you word this correctly, because this is false, our husbands can forgive our sins, if you forgive the sins of others, their sins they are forgiven, forgive others as I forgive you, this is scripture, and there is many scriptures about forgiveness.
 
They can forgive our sins against them, but they DO NOT have the power to forgive all sins, only Christ has that power. If you say that they bear all of a wife's sins (regardless of who she sins against), then they would also have the power to forgive all of her sins. This is heresy.
 
There is no agreement, and if there is wives out there whose husbands stand on different things than our household, this can only cause confusion. If we are not in agreement then there is no reason to even discuss. Everyone just pray about it, and God will reveal to you truth, He said ask and you will recieve. There is to much confusion, and when people read this, they may not know who to agree with, and God is not the author of confusion but peace.

God Bless

Lock this post administrators.
 
Sharon, the only way to come to agreement is to speak about the disagreement. In order to understand our role in submission we need to look at all aspects of it. When someone brings an aspect that hasn't been discussed (Jesus' submission without obedience) it is wise to consider another perspective rather tahn wanting to close down the conversation.
 
If you say that they bear all of a wife's sins (regardless of who she sins against), then they would also have the power to forgive all of her sins. This is heresy.
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I'm not saying that, just what he leads her into that may be wrong
 
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I feel all alone, but I know what ever God shows us, is what we are accountable for, my husband and I are in full agreement together, and many more people may be also, you know It's okay, yall dont have to feel me, let God direct your every path and be with you, Much Love
 
Earlier, you posted that he will bear his wife's sins, and that the wife wouldn't be responsible for them. In order for him to bear the burden of her sins (like Christ), he would also have to have the power to forgive them (like Christ). You can't have one without the other.

I was stating that he does bear his portion of the guilt of her sins, because he is responsible to God for her, but ultimately, she will pay the price for her own sins. Commission of sins and forgiveness of sins are individual acts with individual accountability.
 
sharonr said:
(That hasn't been discussed (Jesus' submission without obedience)

Sola what do you mean by this-

I dont think this post is getting anywhere but confusing,
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I added another element of submission to the conversation when I discussed Jesus' submission without obedience. I used that example to show that there is biblical proof for the action of submitting while disobeying. If a person is willing to submit to the punishment, rather than disobey God, they are still in true submission.
 
sharonr said:
I feel all alone, but I know what ever God shows us, is what we are accountable for, my husband and I are in full agreement together, and many more people may be also, you know It's okay, yall dont have to feel me, let God direct your every path and be with you, Much Love
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I certainly don't want you to feel alone. This issue doesn't have to be divisive. I would add, though, that there could be a lot of terrible implications if a wife believed this type of submission and followed her husband into gross immorality because she thought she wouldn't be held accountable to God.
 
Earlier, you posted that he will bear his wife's sins, and that the wife wouldn't be responsible for them. In order for him to bear the burden of her sins (like Christ), he would also have to have the power to forgive them (like Christ). You can't have one without the other.
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This dont make much since. My husband is responsible if he lead me in the wrong direction I will be responsible for obeying him, and submitting to him. He will be judged according to if he led us in the right direction. I have a part to follow, he has a part to lead. We in this together, just like God will not hold you accountable for something you dont know, how can I know if it is wrong, now certain stuff like if one day I was in Sara's or Rebeca's position and my husband told me to lie, obviously he's telling me for a reason, and I may not understand fully, but that's why god gave me rules to follow, to obey him. Bag this up with scripture someone, can you, where is this in scripture?

How will I know what sin is, unless my husband tells me. This is all I know. Submitting to him just the same as I would to Jesus.

It shouldnt be thought of if he lead me to sin, because God will intervene, I believe.
 
We are al still learning and growing, I dont know everything, God knows everything, so I can only can speak so mcuh, I'm not some super wise person, but God is, and I only can break this down so much in text, I'm no teacher of the word, this is for wise men to break down. Oreslag is discussing this in marriage issues, if you all want anything ask him, and discuss with him,
 
sharonr said:
How will I know what sin is, unless my husband tells me. This is all I know. Submitting to him just the same as I would to Jesus.
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Are you kidding me? Are you saying you don't know what sin is at all? So before you married you had absolutely no moral compass? And now your husband is there to tell you that murder, theft and lying is wrong? :shock:
It shouldnt be thought of if he lead me to sin, because God will intervene, I believe.
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You were offered up examples where that clearly did not happen, just because you believe that it would happen to you, certainly does not mean it should be a widespread policy, that way Madness lays.

I am sorry Sharonr but you appear to be a bit confused and distressed. Why not instead of pushing your agenda so strongly just listen for a while?

B
 
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