Who Died for Us?

[OttoM]

The "Old Testament" requires blood from something that is without defect and spotless. This dis-qualifies every man on earth. It dis-qualifies the pastor, elder, bishop, rabbi, pope, presidents, and everyone else. Only one was qualified - and that was the Lamb of God - Yahushua the Messiah (Lord Jesus Christ).

He was the one that died for us. He was the one that paid the price. He was the one that suffered. He was the spotless lamb. He is the atonement.

And he said - "If you love me keep God's commandments."

So tell me - how come pastors and priests will tell you that God's commandments are voided, but you better keep "my commandments." Normally things such as monogamy only, no divorce/re-marriage, no sabbath, and so forth. Even though the NT repeats over and over - that believers are to keep "God's commandments." The church is not God. The pastor is not God. The pope is not God. They did not die for us. Their blood isn't worthy anything. A good church teaches the commandments of God through faith and testimony of Yahushua the Messiah (His name in the original Hebrew literally means YAH is Salvation/God is Salvation). And gentiles will be persecuted by their own people for doing so:

1 Thessalonians 2:13-14

13 Therefore, we never stop thanking God that when you received his message from us, you didn’t think of our words as mere human ideas. You accepted what we said as the very word of God—which, of course, it is. And this word continues to work in you who believe.

14 And then, dear brothers and sisters, you (gentiles) suffered persecution from your own countrymen. In this way, you imitated the believers in God’s churches in Judea who, because of their belief in Christ Jesus, suffered from their own people, the Jews.

So what has changed? Gentiles will still suffer persecution for following the commandments of God versus the traditions of men. And in the nation state of Israel - keeping the Word of God will not necessarily result in persecution - but you better not keep the testimony and faith of Yeshua. That will get you kicked out of the synagogue - just like it did in the 1st century (John 9:22).

God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow:

Isaiah 8:20
Look to God’s instructions and teachings! People who contradict his word are completely in the dark.

Mark 7:6
Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote,

‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 7 They worship me in vain, for they teach man-made ideas as commandments from God.

8 For you ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition.” 9 Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition.

God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He does not change. Do gentiles love their Lord and Savior? If yes - how come so many have chosen the traditions of men over the instructions from their Lord and Savior? They prefer the doctrines of their church - which will sometimes outright contradict the Word of God - over the one that suffered and died for them. Over the one that Created you. The one that gave you life, and offers eternal life for those that love him. And once again - how do we show our love for him? I'm just a nobody, but here is the beloved apostle John:

 

[Asforme&myhouse]

The "Old Testament" requires blood from something that is without defect and spotless.

The Old Testament requires “something”? By something, you mean an animal, right?

 

[Bartato]

The "Old Testament" requires blood from something that is without defect and spotless. This dis-qualifies every man on earth. It dis-qualifies the pastor, elder, bishop, rabbi, pope, presidents, and everyone else. Only one was qualified - and that was the Lamb of God - Yahushua the Messiah (Lord Jesus Christ).

He was the one that died for us. He was the one that paid the price. He was the one that suffered. He was the spotless lamb. He is the atonement.

And he said - "If you love me keep God's commandments."

So tell me - how come pastors and priests will tell you that God's commandments are voided, but you better keep "my commandments." Normally things such as monogamy only, no divorce/re-marriage, no sabbath, and so forth. Even though the NT repeats over and over - that believers are to keep "God's commandments." The church is not God. The pastor is not God. The pope is not God. They did not die for us. Their blood isn't worthy anything. A good church teaches the commandments of God through faith and testimony of Yahushua the Messiah (His name in the original Hebrew literally means YAH is Salvation/God is Salvation). And gentiles will be persecuted by their own people for doing so:

1 Thessalonians 2:13-14

13 Therefore, we never stop thanking God that when you received his message from us, you didn’t think of our words as mere human ideas. You accepted what we said as the very word of God—which, of course, it is. And this word continues to work in you who believe.

14 And then, dear brothers and sisters, you (gentiles) suffered persecution from your own countrymen. In this way, you imitated the believers in God’s churches in Judea who, because of their belief in Christ Jesus, suffered from their own people, the Jews.

So what has changed? Gentiles will still suffer persecution for following the commandments of God versus the traditions of men. And in the nation state of Israel - keeping the Word of God will not necessarily result in persecution - but you better not keep the testimony and faith of Yeshua. That will get you kicked out of the synagogue - just like it did in the 1st century (John 9:22).

God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow:

Isaiah 8:20
Look to God’s instructions and teachings! People who contradict his word are completely in the dark.

Mark 7:6
Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote,

‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 7 They worship me in vain, for they teach man-made ideas as commandments from God.

8 For you ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition.” 9 Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition.

God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He does not change. Do gentiles love their Lord and Savior? If yes - how come so many have chosen the traditions of men over the instructions from their Lord and Savior? They prefer the doctrines of their church - which will sometimes outright contradict the Word of God - over the one that suffered and died for them. Over the one that Created you. The one that gave you life, and offers eternal life for those that love him. And once again - how do we show our love for him? I'm just a nobody, but here is the beloved apostle John:

View attachment 10986

Otto,
As usual there is something both right and good, and also something off track and wrong with your Torah Observance argument.

This is that same argument.

Yes, we are to follow God's commands, not man's.

It's also clear that certain things about the Law and/or our relationship to it have changed.

Christ is our High Priest, yet He is of the Tribe of Judah, not Levi.

In the death of Christ, we died to the Law (that He Himself gave), so that we could be married another, to the risen Lord Himself (Romans 7).

I don't fully understand that passage, but it clearly means something, and I believe it means something radically different than what the you and certain other "Torah Observant" think.

We must be led and ruled by Christ Himself as guided by the Holy Spirit, not our own opinions, or other man made rules.

Apparently we can't even be led by God's perfect Law, it has to be God Himself.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Heh men, I read the original post very carefully and it is not an argument for Torah observance. While we all know the OP does keep Torah his post just calls for the keeping of God’s commands, a very New Testament teaching.

He does not specify which of those commands he thinks may or may not be in effect.

 

[Mark C]

It's also clear that certain things about the Law and/or our relationship to it have changed.

Whose "Law"?

I am no longer "under bondage" to the "traditions of man." Or of the commandments of 'the pope.'

Nor, in the US, under the bondage of some un-elected anti-constitutional bureaucrat, or black-robed priest of the Adversary.

 

[OttoM]

Whose "Law"?

I am no longer "under bondage" to the "traditions of man." Or of the commandments of 'the pope.'

Nor, in the US, under the bondage of some un-elected anti-constitutional bureaucrat, or black-robed priest of the Adversary.

Exactly what the apostle Paul says in Colossians 2:20-23

20 You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the spiritual powers of this world. So why do you keep on following the rules of the world, such as, 21 “Don’t handle! Don’t taste! Don’t touch!”? 22 Such rules are mere human teachings about things that deteriorate as we use them. 23 These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, pious self-denial, and severe bodily discipline. But they provide no help in conquering a person’s evil desires.

In the death of Christ, we died to the Law (that He Himself gave), so that we could be married another, to the risen Lord Himself (Romans 7).

James 1:25
But if you look carefully into the perfect law that sets you free, and if you do what it says and don’t forget what you heard, then God will bless you for doing it.

Freedom from what? From the bondage of human teachings and traditions. Remember - men can serve only one Master (Matthew 6:24). A perfect example of this is when the pharisees were upset Lord Jesus Christ wasn't following their "human rules" on the washing of hands before eating bread. "God is with us" tells us in Matthew 23:1-2 we're to obey when these pharisees are teaching God's laws - but when they start teaching their own human traditions - we don't have to - "ESPECIALLY" if that teaching contradicts the Word of God. Don't put yourself under their bondage. They didn't die for you. The same principle applies to the churches doing the "Exact Same Thing" the pharisees were rebuked for in Mark Chapter 7. And just like the pharisees in the 1st century skillfully twisted God's laws - so do the churches skillfully twist Paul's letters. The fact of the matter - if Paul taught anything against God's laws - he would be the "Least in the Kingdom" according to Matthew 5:19.