General And Jesus said to them, “I ask you, ...?"

[PeteR]

It's a good point you raise about there being multiple polygynous fathers in the genealogy of Jesus Christ but especially that He came through Solomon, the son of Bathsheba.

Lol.... few things get me more fired up than lazy, lying, oxygen wasting 'preachers and teachers.'. Yeah, I actually started that article ten days ago and put it down for fear of torching people...

It's a good point you raise about there being multiple polygynous fathers in the genealogy of Jesus Christ but especially that He came through Solomon, the son of Bathsheba.

Yes, though technically, I believe His physical lineage is through Nathan, Solomon's younger brother. Remember, the throne was torn from Solomon, but not his father.

And, thanks to all... i'll keep hammering this until the false teachers have the stones to come out swinging. I do it for the greats like Madan, Ochino, Luck, etc that died in this fight without seeing truth accepted. May Yah smile on their efforts and embolden the rest if us to continue the assault on the ivory towered fleecers of the Flock.

 

[NickF]

This thread inspired my most recent post: https://natsab.com/2022/07/16/questions-christendom-cant-or-wont-answer-re-marriage/

Loved it! Wish there was a categories or meta tag on all your posts so I could look at a list of a certain topic or category of article.

 

[frederick]

Yes, though technically, I believe His physical lineage is through Nathan, Solomon's younger brother.

(YLT) Mathew 1:1 A roll of the birth of Jesus Christ, son of David, son of Abraham.
....v:6 and Jesse begat David the king. And David the king begat Solomon, of her [who had been] Uriah's,
Here we have His lineage through His human father, Joseph.

(YLT) Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself was beginning to be about thirty years of age, being, as was supposed, son of Joseph,
...v:31 the [son] of Melea, the [son] of Mainan, the [son] of Mattatha, the [son] of Nathan,
And here we have His lineage through His human mother Mary, although He "was supposed a son of Joseph". Hence the differences in the two genealogical records.

 

[PeteR]

Loved it! Wish there was a categories or meta tag on all your posts so I could look at a list of a certain topic or category of article.

I have most all hashtagged as well as somewhat topically subdivided. See the sidebar for both on the desktop site.

 

[Daniel DeLuca]

Lol.... few things get me more fired up than lazy, lying, oxygen wasting 'preachers and teachers.'.

Our Bible study teacher actually agrees with me on the topic, but of course, we are not too vocal about it at the church. I find it funny how some people claim that God couldn't do anything about the polygyny that was going on an ancient Israel, but the church has no trouble stifling it.

What we need, is a signed document by 100 or so preachers who have been intimidated into silence.

 

[frederick]

What we need, is a signed document by 100 or so preachers who have been intimidated into silence.

I go so far as to say; what we need are bold honest preachers, steadfast in the faith, who are prepared to suffer persecution for upholding the truth, as is written in 2 Tim. 3:12.

 

[Daniel DeLuca]

I go so far as to say; what we need are bold honest preachers, steadfast in the faith, who are prepared to suffer persecution for upholding the truth, as is written in 2 Tim. 3:12.

The problem is that if they are too bold, they will no longer be in their pulpits. It would on the other hand be a powerful bold statement, if we could gather signatures from a large group of pastors who have been silent on this issue, to let the church know that this is not some isolated belief relegated to a fringe group. We have to remember that Jesus said that He was sending His followers out like sheep among wolves, and He said that they were to be as wise as serpents. A pastor can have no influence on a church that he is no longer allowed to minister to.

 

[frederick]

The problem is that if they are too bold, they will no longer be in their pulpits. It would on the other hand be a powerful bold statement, if we could gather signatures from a large group of pastors who have been silent on this issue, to let the church know that this is not some isolated belief relegated to a fringe group. We have to remember that Jesus said that He was sending His followers out like sheep among wolves, and He said that they were to be as wise as serpents. A pastor can have no influence on a church that he is no longer allowed to minister to.

Yes, I know very well what happens when a pastor takes a public stand for the authority of Scripture. But I also know that is the very thing we are called to do and leave the outcome in our Master's hands.

 

[steve]

The disciples were all martyrs.
Yet they turned the world upside down.

“…despised and rejected of men.”

 

[Joleneakamama]

May Yah smile on their efforts and embolden the rest if us to continue the assault on the ivory towered fleecers of the Flock.

Our second son has recently been engaging his circle of friends on the subject. Probably in part because of the recent change in our family. He tells us about conversations....and I just love how he holds them on point and keeps redirecting them to the scriptures and cautioning them to not make a judgment before study. He quotes proverbs 17:15 "He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD" as it is a serious matter and only God can define sin.
We laughed at home when he related how a couple of the girls joined the conversation....and one ignorantly stated "No woman would ever choose that."
Our son now knows two that did, and most anyone that knows me at all is/was aware that I wanted this for my life, husband, family, and that used to be hypothetical woman that might love "my" husband.
There is a book out there called "Shepherding a child's heart" but what is a husband but a shepherd to his wife? And what man that is happy and fulfilled in doing so could refuse another.....that wants to be under his care?

People in general like to pass the buck and avoid responsibility for the quality of their relationships. They want the pastor to take responsibility for deficiencies in their spiritual walk, blame their partner for marriage issues, and it must be someone else's fault if their relationships with their children are lacking. Honesty demands the opposite.
Our family was already different. Now we are just differenter.

 

[NickF]

Our second son has recently been engaging his circle of friends on the subject. Probably in part because of the recent change in our family. He tells us about conversations....and I just love how he holds them on point and keeps redirecting them to the scriptures and cautioning them to not make a judgment before study. He quotes proverbs 17:15 "He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD" as it is a serious matter and only God can define sin.
We laughed at home when he related how a couple of the girls joined the conversation....and one ignorantly stated "No woman would ever choose that."
Our son now knows two that did, and most anyone that knows me at all is/was aware that I wanted this for my life, husband, family, and that used to be hypothetical woman that might love "my" husband.
There is a book out there called "Shepherding a child's heart" but what is a husband but a shepherd to his wife? And what man that is happy and fulfilled in doing so could refuse another.....that wants to be under his care?

People in general like to pass the buck and avoid responsibility for the quality of their relationships. They want the pastor to take responsibility for deficiencies in their spiritual walk, blame their partner for marriage issues, and it must be someone else's fault if their relationships with their children are lacking. Honesty demands the opposite.
Our family was already different. Now we are just differenter.

Can I use this in the book I'm working on?

 

[Keith Martin]

A pastor can have no influence on a church that he is no longer allowed to minister to.

A pastor isn't even leading a flock whose permission he has to seek in order to understand Scripture.

 

[Joleneakamama]

Can I use this in the book I'm working on?

Sure!

 

[frederick]

A pastor isn't even leading a flock whose permission he has to seek in order to understand Scripture.

Thinking about your comment Keith reminded me that most congregations "employ" their shepherds so the flock tells the shepherd what it wants to hear. They want their ears tickled so they accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires (2 Tim. 4:3). They pay the piper so they get to decide the tune; and if he don't play, they don't pay.

 

[steve]

Thinking about your comment Keith reminded me that most congregations "employ" their shepherds so the flock tells the shepherd what it wants to hear. They want their ears tickled so they accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires (2 Tim. 4:3). They pay the piper so they get to decide the tune; and if he don't play, they don't pay.

Exactly, it is a hired political appointment.

Edit: Hired to be spiritual in their place.
Spectator Christianity.

Further edit: Priests/pastors was something that the Protestants didn’t leave behind when they left the Universal (Catholic) church. A man, (increasingly women) to represent them.
Paul never appointed a pastor, just elders.

 

[James Pease]

Exactly, it is a hired political appointment.

Edit: Hired to be spiritual in their place.
Spectator Christianity.

Further edit: Priests/pastors was something that the Protestants didn’t leave behind when they left the Universal (Catholic) church. A man, (increasingly women) to represent them.
Paul never appointed a pastor, just elders.

1st Corinthians 9
24¶have ye not known that those running in a race -- all indeed run, but one doth receive the prize? so run ye, that ye may obtain;

25and every one who is striving, is in all things temperate; these, indeed, then, that a corruptible crown they may receive, but we an incorruptible;

26I, therefore, thus run, not as uncertainly, thus I fight, as not beating air;

27but I chastise my body, and bring it into servitude, lest by any means, having preached to others -- I myself may become disapproved.

 

[steve]

1st Corinthians 9
24¶have ye not known that those running in a race -- all indeed run, but one doth receive the prize? so run ye, that ye may obtain;

25and every one who is striving, is in all things temperate; these, indeed, then, that a corruptible crown they may receive, but we an incorruptible;

26I, therefore, thus run, not as uncertainly, thus I fight, as not beating air;

27but I chastise my body, and bring it into servitude, lest by any means, having preached to others -- I myself may become disapproved.

I’m not sure what point you are desiring to make.

 

[Joleneakamama]

Exactly, it is a hired political appointment.

Edit: Hired to be spiritual in their place.
Spectator Christianity.

Further edit: Priests/pastors was something that the Protestants didn’t leave behind when they left the Universal (Catholic) church. A man, (increasingly women) to represent them.
Paul never appointed a pastor, just elders.

Sad but too true. Biblically men holding office in Israel, political or spiritual, were to answer to God and seek to please Him. Any man that desires to please men is unfit and truly unable to actually serve others as he will compromise the truth if he is not first and foremost dedicated to pleasing YHWH.

 

[James Pease]

I’m not sure what point you are desiring to make.

Paul always disciplined himself to run the race well, so that while preaching to others he wouldn't be disapproved by God or cast out. This is a good example of what today's "pastors" should be doing, however they may find themselves disapproved by God.

 

[frederick]

Paul always disciplined himself to run the race well, so that while preaching to others he wouldn't be disapproved by God or cast out. This is a good example of what today's "pastors" should be doing, however they may find themselves disapproved by God.

The responsibility has always been to preach the word (2 Tim. 4:2); to proclaim, to herald forth the truth of Scripture. Any pastor doing anything else is not doing his job. Whether people listen or not isn't the issue; he isn't to change the message to make it more appealing. He must stick with the program and never forget that, as a teacher, he will receive a stricter judgment (James 3:1).

I told a seminary class; You can preach to please people or you can preach to please God, but you won't be popular doing the latter.